Posted on 08/01/2014 1:47:03 PM PDT by MNDude
I have a theological question that I have not heard asked before.
As we know, God gave his only Son to suffer and to die for our sins. As we can imagine, a parent seeing their son suffer must be the hardest thing possible, and the Father must have grieved greatly to see His Son suffer.
My question is, did the death itself of His son cause the Father to grieve as well?
I mean, when we humans lose a loved one, one of the biggest reasons is that this person is removed from Point A (where we are) to Point B (where we are not).
In the case of Christ, would it not be the opposite? Christ would go from Point A (not in the Father's presence)to Point B (in the Father's presence).
What are your thoughts?
Where does it say that?!
Jesus made it very clear that Lazarus was not dead but “sleeping”
God the Father did NOT abandon the Son in His crucifixion: “God was IN CHRIST, reconciling the world to Himself......”
Jesus the Son, by choice limiting Himself to human flesh (as He still is now), lost the AWARENESS of His Father’s presence for the first time in eternity, thus crying out, “Father, why hast Thou forsaken Me?”. The Father and Son were never separated as many teach. The Father was with the Son through the whole of His crucifixion, death, burial - and resurrection.
Did the Father experience pain through the suffering of His Son?
I doubt it not, though indeed there is no “proof-text” of scripture to verify this. At the same time, Isaiah says, “But the Lord was pleased to crush him, putting him to grief....”, but the reason is explained in the following verses after 53:10, as the Father foresaw the fruit of His Son’s death - the redeeming of mankind and the exaltation and glorification of His Son.
Could you please quote me the specific scriptures that support your statements and from what bible.
Catholic teaching is generally that God as the Father, Son, and Holsy Spirit represent distinct natures and personalities, but not human personalities. Moreover, with the Trinity described as a mystery, your question cannot be answered in any meaningful way.
I would suggest that grief is a human emotion and to be very blunt grief is about "my" loss, not the person who was lost i.e. "what will I do now" "how will I cope without them"
I believe God was rejoicing in that the Son had completed the rescue of man and would now be joining him on the throne.
As it says "I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance."
God was judging his innocent son for the sins of the word.
"Sleeping" is frequently used to describe death of believers. After Jesus said Lazarus was sleeping, he plainly told his disciples that Lazarus had died. See John 11:14.
AMEN!!!
My first reaction to this question is that God the Father, as you should recall, FORSOOK Jesus at the cross. Remember Jesus was burdened with the sin of the world....and God had to turn away from the sight thereof.
Although God the Father was pleased with His Son’s obedience, there was a time, I think, when the Godhead was separated.
Any separation in the Trinity would surely result in sorrow.
*Note: I am not a professional theologian. If anyone else can shed better light on this question, or correct my notions, feel free.
I have always believed that while Christ was bearing our sins on the cross, the Father could NOT look upon Him. After Christ declared, “It is finished” and gave up this mortal life, I believe that separation was over. It had to be an almost intolerable moment for both. We can only imagine what TRUE fellowship with the Father is really like, but, yes, I believe God suffered seeing His only Son there on the cross, having been beaten to a pulp (unrecognizable) and then to have to carry the cross up the hill to Golgotha. God has experienced our deepest hurts, as well.
The answer to your question depends on one’s point of view. Here is what Jesus said about it: “You heard me say to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28 RSV)
“But I have always been interested in the “why have you forsaken me” passage.”
It seems that even within the person of Christ, Himself, the human and the divine occasionally found themselves conflicted. A great mystery.
God, by definition, is immutable, unchangeable, eternal (outside of time) and simple (no parts). God can’t “process” stuff because that would violate eternity. God can’t “feel” stuff either. God and His will are one and the same. So the ? doesn’t make any sense.
The man Jesus died.. The Son of God was God and did not die. Jesus was man of very man and God of very God. We can not understand this in our human minds but the Son who is God in the Trinity did not die.
The classical answer to your question, and really the only satisfactory answer if one holds anything like the Orthodox understanding of God, is that God, in His Divine Essence, is impassible — only the Son, by virtue of His assumption of our human nature in the hypostatic union can properly be described as suffering, grieving, or otherwise exhibiting emotion (a human, rather than a divine quality).
You know, I don’t know what I was thinking. duhhhh
I have serious doubts you have the slightest notion of how absurd your query is.
You are asking finite humans like yourself to apprehend the mind of an infinite God. The definition of folly if there ever was one.
If you wish to amuse God, tell him of your plans.
You are falling into the error of Nestorius, separating the man Jesus from the Divine Logos. The position you are espousing sets at naught the opening of John’s Gospel, as was recognized by the Fathers of the Third Ecumenical Council, who accepted St. Cyril of Alexandria’s critique of Nestorius, reasoned chiefly on the basis of the first chapter of John, in their anathema against Nestorius.
Absurd? rjsimmon says this question has been debated over many years.
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