Marlins fume after new home-plate collision rule helps Reds get a win

yahoo sports ^ | 8-1-14 | Mike Oz

[FlJoePa]

From manager Mike Redmond after the game:

"To lose a ballgame tonight on that play is a joke. It's an absolute joke. I don't think anybody who plays this game should feel good about winning that game. And I would say that if had been reversed. That guy was out by 15 feet. It was a great baseball play. G threw a strike to Matty. He was out by 15 feet. He didn't slide because he couldn't slide because he was out by so far. And yet those guys in New York decided the outcome of that game ...

"No doubt we have some grinders out there in this clubhouse. To look at them in the face and say we lost the game on a technicality is [B.S.]. Absolutely [B.S.]. I'm so [upset]. Like I said I played this game for so long. I've given this game everything I've had as a player and a manager. What a joke. What a [freaking] joke. That's ridiculous."

[dfwgator]

But it led to one of the greatest quotes of all time:

“When the seagulls follow the trawler, it’s because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea.”

[dfwgator]

Heck that would be a 15-yard penalty in the NFL now.

[dfwgator]

... And was banned for life, worldwide... and convicted and sentenced to jail and fined L200,000. (But he did eventually get the ban eased, of course.)

He also lost his place as captain of the French National Team.....but it paved the way for Zidane to take over leadership of the team, which in the end was a blessing in disguise.

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

How do you retaliate adequately? Drive nails into a bat and smash Ty Cobb’s brains out all over the playing field?

Just a bat to both kneecaps.

The problem is that there are players like Cobb who like hurting other people in the course of a game. And that is where these rules come from.

[PieterCasparzen]

Look at post #16 to see how well the gentleman’s agreement worked. Ty Cobb is pictured making a flying, feet-first leap into the crotch of the catcher, wearing actual, sharpened spikes (not just “spikes”) on his feet. How do you retaliate adequately? Drive nails into a bat and smash Ty Cobb’s brains out all over the playing field?

Look at Cobb's actual position - he has jumped in the air, he is not in contact with the ground, he is no longer running. His body is nothing but a projectile at that point, because he is not a bird and can not change his direction by flapping his arms.

He does this, with spikes out front, to intimidate. But he leaves himself wide open for being tossed about 10 feet by a catcher who knew enough to stay low.

This catcher stupidly opted to simple stand their like a pincushion. In the face of the fearsome flying spikes, the only choices he could figure out where standing there like a brave moron and abandoning his post. The intimidation pressured him so he could not think of anything to do to counter the flying spikes, and the sportsmanship of the day prevented him from abandoning his post.

Ty Cobb's intimidation principle was simple: here I come, I'm comin' in spikes first, I'm getting to the bag if I have to slice you in half to do it. The implicit demand was for the fielder to get out of his way and let him have the base. And it all happens in a fraction of second, so Cobb succeeded where the catcher had no plan to counter Cobb's moves.

Skilled catchers and runners learn the mechanics of successful sliding and succesful countering of slides - and the all-important mechanics of protecting oneself from jerks who push the envelope solely to intimidate.

A key point is that the base is on the ground. So ultimately the runner needs to get to ground level to touch the bag. A skillful catcher will leave 1 "best" way to the bag for the runner, not completely block the basepath. Completely blocking the basepath - under the "real" "normal" rules - entitles the runner to collide with the catcher, since he's in the way, which greatly increases the likelihood of the catcher dropping the ball, which, as long as the runner touches the plate, allows the runner to be safe.

Of course faking is often used, like, in this case, the catcher could fake as Cobb is coming down the line like he's going to stand tall and block, luring Cobb to take to the air, then at the last second the catcher could get down on the ground and shove him from underneath as he flies through the air.

When the runner comes in feet first sliding low to the bag, even though the catcher can be hurt by the runner's spikes, the runner is extremely vulnerable to the catcher seriously hurting their legs by putting his weight on them, twisting them, getting his spikes into the runner's legs, etc. There certainly would be scenario where a smart catcher would allow a guy like Cobb to score a run but make sure to rip Cobb's calves to shreds with his spikes in the process, thereby trying to put him out of the game. Oops, in all that action, I guess I kinda stood on your calf and twisted, then fell on your leg and broke your leg or ripped tendons at the knee by crushing it with my other leg. Oh, and when I tagged you as your face ran into my glove, I guess my glove sort of broke your jaw, Mr. Cobb. Sorry about that. Walk it off.

Catching is no position for a man without a plan. But the best catchers are very, very difficult to get past if they get the ball in time.

[oh8eleven]

I expected him to do exactly what he did - try to prevent the run from scoring.
Then why did you call him a sissy?
I don't agree with the new "leave a lane" rule, but I also don't think a catcher (or any player) has the right to block the plate w/o the ball.
I grew up in NYC area when Giants were still there. I still root for them.

[FlJoePa]

Because (as I said) he did his share of crying to the media after the injury. For quite awhile, I might add.

I don’t think that sped up his rehab any, so what was the point? It wasn’t a dirty play. At all. He was in a bad position and got hurt. That’s all.

I don’t have anything against him, and I’ve always followed the Giants. I think he’s a good (but somewhat overrated) player.

[Pox]

I had an easy solution when I was a catcher. I simply would jump up and avoid Cobb’s “Flying Crotch Stab” and land on his legs or abdomen with my own cleats.

[oh8eleven]

Because (as I said) he did his share of crying to the media after the injury.
That would make him a whiner, not a sissy.
Posey over-rated? LOL ... rookie of the year, MVP, league batting title, 2x all star, 2x world series rings, comeback player of the year, silver slugger, and more. All in about 4 years.

[FlJoePa]

I said “somewhat” overrated.

[SoFloFreeper]

Redmond has a right to be mad....I say that replay....utterly ridiculous....and if you look at the home plate umpire’s reaction, HE ALSO BELIEVED the “appeal” officials got it wrong.

Stupid call, MLB.

[Mariner]

"Stupid rule all centered around a sissy catcher that got hurt a few years ago."

Buster Posey thinks it's a stupid rule, or at least how it's being applied, and would probably beat your ass if you called him a sissy to his face.

It was MLB management and owners that wanted this rule. Not even the umps like it.

[itsahoot]

That’s why MLB should have banned home plate collisions way back in the day.

If they just banned score keeping, all this would go away.

[FlJoePa]

Heh...I guess I should take back the word “sissy”??

I used it because BP was (imo) less than professional wrg to media discussions after the fact of that collision.

I like BP. Really, I do. I just don’t consider him an elite player, and others do.

[Mariner]

He’s slumping this year

[oh8eleven]

He’s slumping this year.
The whole team is slumping. Pitching is terrible! Losing that 9.5 game lead over LA in just a few weeks almost killed me.
Then they get swept by LA last weekend ... argghhhhhhhhhhhh.

[GeronL]

wow. That is weird

[PieterCasparzen]

Shin guards hurt to :), especially that knee part.

I did a lot of pitching as a kid so I had healthy respect for catchers, just slid in hard but clean. Never tried plowing into one, imho, they had too much “armor”, didn’t seem like the way to go for success.

[cripplecreek]

I hated to see Jackson go but the Tigers got David Price in return. That gives the Tigers 3 Cy Young award winners on the 5 man starting pitching rotation.

[dangus]

All that writing to say, “the catcher had it coming by getting in his way” for not, as your own words describe “abandoning his post”?

>> Of course faking is often used, like, in this case, the catcher could fake as Cobb is coming down the line like he’s going to stand tall and block, luring Cobb to take to the air, then at the last second the catcher could get down on the ground and shove him from underneath as he flies through the air. <<

Thus putting his face closer to the spikes. That would be so incredibly stupid as to defy words.