Did a Russian soldier's trigger finger blow MH17 out of the sky. US says separatists would struggle

Daily Mail UK ^ | 23:34 EST, 18 July 2014 | Associated Press (AP)

[Zhang Fei]

U.S. Ambassador Samantha Power told an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council on Friday that the United States cannot rule out that Russia helped in the launch of the surface-to-air missile that shot down a Malaysia Airlines jet over eastern Ukraine, killing all 298 people on board.

Power said the U.S. believes the plane was likely downed by an SA-11 missile fired from an area in eastern Ukraine controlled by pro-Russian separatists. She said Russia has provided SA-11s and other heavy weapons to the separatists.

Britain's U.N. Ambassador Mark Lyall Grant, who called the emergency meeting, was more emphatic on assessing blame for the crash. And Ms Power it is likely that Russian military personnel were at the controls of the missile battery that downed the airliner.

New intelligence seen by the New York Times, suggest a surface to air missile on Monday shot down a Ukranian military plane from inside Russia’s borders – just days before MH17 was blown apart. It is possible that the same battery was then moved into Ukraine, where it shot down the Malaysian airlines jet liner.

[dforest]

I never mentioned Homos. I know there are homos everywhere. I really think this is off topic. What the heck are you talkin’ bout. LOL

I wish them well and you well. Now go away, take a deep breath and work on you answer for the US response to Putin, Don’t bother me until you do. m’kay? I am done with you.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

A load of BS.

"According to the UN International Panel for Struggle against Sexual Exploitation, the Russian army is plagued with male prostitution. A small amount of money is enough to find a Russian soldier-prostitute in the center of Moscow.

Servicemen may become male prostitutes in the Russian army for various reasons. There are young men who voluntarily offer sexual favors to their homosexual clients; others are forced into prostitution against their own will. Newcomers, especially those who finished higher schools before joining the army, suffer from sexual harassment more often than others. Brave soldiers try to protect their honor and rights, although there is no one to help them: commanders and military officials may often be involved in the sex business too.

“When I was standing on duty, two bullies came up to me and shoved me into the stockroom, a soldier serving at one of Moscow’s military units recollects. "They raped me there in turn. It was very painful and revolting. It didn’t take them much time to finish, but the next day I started noticing other soldiers giving me strange looks. I instantly realized that those bastards let everyone know what they had done to me. An officer came up to me one day and said to me point-blank: “Tomorrow you will to serve two clients.” I knew that if I said “no” then I would spend my last days spitting blood. But still, I told him “no.” When the officer heard that, he pulled out pictures of me being raped in the stockroom. “If you don’t serve the clients, you mother will see these pictures,” said he. I was forced into prostitution,” the soldier said."

http://english.pravda.ru/society/stories/15-02-2007/87441-army_prostitute-0/

[wetphoenix]

?

[RaceBannon]

I am a trained radar operator from the 70’s

AN/TPQ-10 and AN/TYA-3
these were not fire control systems, they were long range monitoring (AN/TYA-3) and radar guided bombing (AN/TPQ-10)

the methods of control for the Q-10 would be similar, and this was 1950’s to 1960’s technology

a 4 pulse signal would be sent out, 4 separate signals out of the same antenna, 4 cones of a radar signal, where each of the 4 cones would intersect in the center

think of 4 circles that intersect in the center, think of the olympics symbol, instead of 5 circles, think of 4

I believe we called it a 4-pulse feedhorn array

once we aquired the aircraft on radar, we would move by handwheel, the direction of the radar, moving the radar antenna to face the signal return by moving the radar in it’s azimuth (left to right ) and then it’s elevation (up and down)

when the signal was centered on the intersection of the 4 pulse array, we would flick a switch and the radar would lock on to the aircraft.

the length of time it took for the pulse to generate and return, we would know the distance from the antenna, think of a hypotenuse of a triangle, using math to just measure that time difference between signal sent to signal return at the speed of light...

the radar would have electronic measurement of it’s elevation angle, so we would know how high it was pointed in the sky.

using a surveyor, would would program in the ground location by coordinates of where the radar was physically at and which end was north, what angle the base was pointed at, so the computer system would know which way was north and how the radar was oriented.

knowing where the radar was, and knowing where the aircraft was using the math of the radar return and distance and angle from the radar antenna (slant range, azimuth and elevation), we had a map and a display that would show where the aircraft was in the air.

we woould then direct it to the target, tell him what speed to fly at, what altitude and when to drop his bombs.

Isaac Newton would do the rest, the time of fall from an altitude is a simple physics problem for high school students, and the known speed the aircraf was flying at when it dropped its bombs, we directed it by voice vector to the target, told him when to drop his bombs to hit a target that the pilot was just flying over at the speed and altitude we told him to.

That would get a plane shot down nowadays, but here is my point:

radar systems are much more complicated today, not for the operator, but for the system of control. slewing the radar by azimuth to send out a signal to locate an aircraft might still be possible, but locking on to it using a multiple pulse feedhorn array, or whatever newer array, would be automatic now, controlled by digital systems, not tubes and contactors as my system did.

the training to run this system was 6 weeks, and I learned 2 other systems, the UYQ-3 and the TYA-3, running the radar TPQ-10 was not that hard, what was hard was monitoring and recording the degrees of error they were off the track and direction and recorded altitude and airspeed at the time of dropping their ordanance.

thatall means, a 20 year old Russian kid could have hit the switch.

he would have had a senior NCO as his boss, maybe a 27 year old guy, with a 28 or 30 year old officer being the one who most likely hit the launch button.

they would have had a 10 man unit who set up the radar, ran the electrical power and a/c cooling, drove the trucks to get there, a surveyor to locate the radar or use a GPS system instead. Most likely in this modern world, a gps system to locate the radar to within 3 feet so it knows where it is.

The radar would be sending signals out, receiving signals back, telling the radar where the aircraft is. The missile would be receiving correction signals to direct it’s flight to the target, all controlled by computer, and since the civilian airliner would be flying in a straight line, this would be an easy shootdown, all you would have to do it hit it 1/2 way of full capability of the warhead and that 777 would fall down go boom.

while a novice could not walk up and power this type of missile launcher, most likely each person who ran it was under 30

[DariusBane]

Why would i think that Russia could be an anti Islamic partner? Did you read the whole post? They could be a partner where our interest align. That is rare. We backed Islam over Russia in Afghanistan. They back Iran over the U.S. Real Politics at work.

[dforest]

? somehow he has veered off into homo land. Heck, I don’t know. I thought a missile was the issue. Oh well, I am canning pickled beets, somehow they make more sense to me.

[kingu]

No evidence but it is Ukrainian government to benefit the most from the disaster.

If the Ukrainian national forces were involved, Russia would have already provided that evidence. If it could have been implied, Russia would have already done so. Pretty strong inferred evidence that national forces were not involved.

But let me point out the corpse in the room; a Muslim plane was shot out of the air. They will view it as a Russian action, no matter what the eventual truth is. They would not be able to imagine a weapon system like this outside of Russian hands, as that would be what their government would do.

Another 250+ martyrs have been made, and Russia will likely have another major terrorist attack on their soil because of it. And they know it. If there was a way to deflect that attack onto Ukraine or the West, Russia would have stepped up with that information. And that there were planes from Singapore Air in the region at the time, far less dangerous targets, points to very little direct Russian involvement.

To me, this looks to be exactly what early reports indicated; pro Russian forces using the toys they showed reporters the days before and hitting a non combatant.

[wetphoenix]

Google Nayirah testimony. There is a reason why NGOs are limited in Russia. They were a collection of assorted traitors spreading the most ridiculous bullcrap to feed known stereotypes and there were idiot western sponsors to pay them for that. The fact that you are citing Pravda rag for reference which is a former comie now-irrelevant yellow rag is funny to me.

[wetphoenix]

Google Nayirah testimony. There is a reason why NGOs are limited in Russia. They were a collection of assorted traitors spreading the most ridiculous bullcrap to feed known stereotypes and there were idiot western sponsors to pay them for that. The fact that you are citing Pravda rag for reference which is a former comie now-irrelevant yellow rag is funny to me.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

But let me point out the corpse in the room; a Muslim plane was shot out of the air.

With 20 something Aussies, 15 or so Dutch, at least one American, Germans, other Europeans, Asians, 80 children, that was flying from the Netherlands to New Zealand or someplace in Asia?

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Google Nayirah testimony. There is a reason why NGOs are limited in Russia. They were a collection of assorted traitors spreading the most ridiculous bullcrap to feed known stereotypes and there were idiot western sponsors to pay them for that. The fact that you are citing Pravda rag for reference which is a former comie now-irrelevant yellow rag is funny to me.

You are an idiot. Pravda.ru is a Russian source, and Putin is pro-Communist to begin with. Also, the whole "any source that is negative to Russia is part of a conspiracy to make Russia look bad" is pure tinfoil.

This is the real reason why the Putinistas on this forum should not be trusted. They are are all "objective" facts people, and then when they read something from Western sources they do not like, they're NWO conspiracy theorists.

[kingu]

The actual passenger list will matter to Islamics as much as kids in a classroom in Gaza... They want Russia out of Syria, out of Iran, and want to strengthen their fellows in Russia. And using the dead is their most typical ploy for local consumption.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

The actual passenger list will matter to Islamics as much as kids in a classroom in Gaza... They want Russia out of Syria, out of Iran, and want to strengthen their fellows in Russia. And using the dead is their most typical ploy for local consumption.

Putin's people ARE their fellows in Chechnya, at least the ones in charge. And Iran is not an anti-Islamic regime. It is a Islamic regime that wants to wipe Israel off the map.

[kabar]

Look, Putin acts in the interest of Russia. We cannot say that Obama acts in the interest of The States so i give grudging admiration to Putin on that point.

The interests of Russia are inimical to those of ours. Why anyone would admire this KGB scum for any reason is a puzzle to me. He is a petty tyrant.

I assume you gave "grudging admiration" to Stalin, Hitler, Castro, and Mao for acting in their countries' interests.

[wetphoenix]

Major problem with you guys is that you have no idea what communism really is. And you won’t ever learn until jack-booted thugs would put you in a cattle car but unfortunately it will be too late.

[wetphoenix]

~Putin’s people ARE their fellows in Chechnya, at least the ones in charge. And Iran is not an anti-Islamic regime. It is a Islamic regime that wants to wipe Israel off the map.~

Iran is an advanced society being put under crappy regime right now. Unlike Saudi ‘allies’ average Iranians despise their regime and it is a matter of time before they would be free.

[Corporate Democrat]

Just making it crystal clear why the separatists almost certainly shot it down. Note that they incriminate themselves without any help from the LSM, Ukraine or Obama or the EU.

Here's a larger snapshot of the first incriminating post, translated via Google Translate. (Untranslated image is at the end)

You can see that he claims a AH-26 was shot down at 17:50 (5:50 PM) MSK aka Moscow Standard Time. which would be around 9:50 AM EST aka Eastern Standard Time.

The reports that a Malaysian commercial plane "crashed" near the Russian border was first posted on FR at 11:25 AM EST, just one hour and a half later.

The Google Cached webpage of the incriminating post also has a timestamp showing it was archived on 17 July 2014 16:10:43 GMT,

16:10:43 GMT aka 4:11 PM GMT, which is 11:11 AM EST, just 20 minutes before reports of a crashed plane started circulating.

ITAR-TASS, RIA Novoski and Life News, all Russian propaganda outlets, reported that an AN-26 was downed by the rebels an hour before the truth came out.

All quoted "eyewitnesses" and the rebels themselves as admitting to it, and posted photos and videos of it a full hour before up to an hour after a commercial plane was reported to have "crashed", via their own websites and social media posts which I have linked to.

RIA Novoski reported an AN-26 shot down by separatists at 18:13 Moscow Time July 17. (translated from Russian)

Life News reported an AN-26 shot down by separatists at 18:34 Moscow Time July 17. (translated from Russian)

ITAR-TASS reported an AN-26 shot down by separatists at 20:01 Moscow Time July 17.(first English-language Russian source reporting this).

You can check for yourselves, and then realize that reports of the missing airliner surfaced about an hour afterwards at 11:30 EST aka 19:30 Moscow Time that a plane had "crashed" in Eastern Ukraine. Of course, the Russians are probably going to delete those reports soon once they get their bearings on this catastrophe.

[kabar]

Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for 2013--Russia

[wetphoenix]

As I said earlier it is most likely that the rebels did it.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Iran is an advanced society being put under crappy regime right now. Unlike Saudi ‘allies’ average Iranians despise their regime and it is a matter of time before they would be free.

You are a Putinist butt kisser. Putin is not arming Iran's people. It is arming Iran's regime.