Help immigrants reject liberal ideas

The Elkhart Truth: People's Forum ^ | July 1, 2014 | Rev. David A. Seyboldt

[Fester Chugabrew]

The recent influx of people from other lands has many citizens and politicians up in arms. Some consider it to be a planned invasion of dependents intent on becoming a huge Democratic voting bloc. Others see it as an opportunity to employ cheap labor for a hefty profit. Still others see it as a direct threat to the American way of life.

The first thing we should consider is that they are people. They are not things. For that reason, whether they are admitted as voting citizens or not, they should receive the basic needs of food and shelter, along with opportunity to contribute to their communities no matter how meager those communities may appear.

The next thing we should consider is that they are in need of spiritual and physical care to the end that they may, as families, have the opportunity to make the best of things despite less-than-favorable conditions. We should make every aim to keep them as families and not tear families apart.

Families are foundational to self-governance, a concept alien to liberals and the current brood of self-entitled bloodsuckers in Washington.

Some Americans have a tendency to sit and complain when resources are spent on those in need. In this case, however, Americans should get off their duffs and meet these people with ideas that allow them to escape the liberal tendency to make us wards of the state. It would be a shame for them to suffer further under liberal policies.

Americans ought to eschew the notion that the state must take care of us. They should step in and teach what it means to be virtuous, independent, cordial, and oriented toward service as we together clean up the messes caused by corrupt people and politicians who have little regard for truth and virtue.

[Fester Chugabrew]

I happen to agree. What ideas do you have for creating opportunities for those who come here to avoid the welfare state?

[kabar]

What ideas do you have for creating opportunities for those who come here to avoid the welfare state?

I am more interested about what we are going to do to create opportunities for the 21 million Americans who are unemployed or underemployed. We don't have a shortage of labor; we have a shortage of jobs. If we really had a labor shortage, wages would be going up not down.

[Fester Chugabrew]

I would surmise we could make jobs of cleaning up Detroit and other slums while feeding, clothing, and housing these able-bodied, unemployed people (whether illegals or not). I think there is more work to be done than we have people willing to do it.

[kabar]

I think there is more work to be done than we have people willing to do it.

This is part of the meme that there are jobs Americans won't do. And now there is a push to double the guest worker programs (temporary work visas) from 650,000 to 1.4 million to do jobs Americans can't do.

Are There Really Jobs Americans Won’t Do? A detailed look at immigrant and native employment across occupations

This analysis tests the often-made argument that immigrants do only jobs Americans don't want. If the argument is correct, there should be occupations comprised entirely or almost entirely of immigrants (legal and illegal). But Census Bureau data collected from 2009 to 2011, which allows for detailed analysis of all 472 separate occupations, shows that there were only a handful of majority-immigrant occupations. Thus, there really are no jobs that Americans won't do. Further, we estimated the share of occupations that are comprised of illegal immigrants, and found that there are no occupations in which the majority of workers are illegally in the country.

Of the 472 civilian occupations, only six are majority immigrant (legal and illegal). These six occupations account for 1 percent of the total U.S. workforce. Moreover, native-born Americans still comprise 46 percent of workers even in these occupations.

Many jobs often thought to be overwhelmingly immigrant (legal and illegal) are in fact majority native-born:

Maids and housekeepers: 51 percent native-born

Taxi drivers and chauffeurs: 58 percent native-born

Butchers and meat processors: 63 percent native-born

Grounds maintenance workers: 64 percent native-born

Construction laborers: 66 percent native-born

Porters, bellhops, and concierges: 72 percent native-born

Janitors: 73 percent native-born

There are 67 occupations in which 25 percent or more of workers are immigrants (legal and illegal). In these high-immigrant occupations, there are still 16.5 million natives — accounting for one out of eight natives in the labor force.

High-immigrant occupations (25 percent or more immigrant) are primarily, but not exclusively, lower-wage jobs that require relatively little formal education.

Remember those long lines around the block when McDonalds announced they were hiring? Americans will do any work. They always have and always will.

[Fester Chugabrew]

The word “jobs” cobbles up the traditional notion of clocking-in for a paycheck. There is more to life than that; there are ways for people to serve and receive basic needs without all the politics. Yes, there are jobs some Americans won’t do. There are also jobs liberals won’t do.

[kabar]

Yes, there are jobs some Americans won’t do

There are no jobs Americans won't do. I guess like the liberals, you don't need no stinkin' facts.

[Fester Chugabrew]

Reality speaks otherwise. Otherwise there would not be so many able bodied Americans sitting of their duffs, collecting unemployment. Is that not a “fact?”

[kabar]

Reality speaks otherwise. Otherwise there would not be so many able bodied Americans sitting of their duffs, collecting unemployment. Is that not a “fact?”

Why do you think they are sitting on their duffs? Because immigrants are taking their jobs and depressing their wages. We have a surplus of labor.

Government data show that since 2000 all of the net gain in the number of working-age (16 to 65) people holding a job has gone to immigrants (legal and illegal). This is remarkable given that native-born Americans accounted for two-thirds of the growth in the total working-age population. Though there has been some recovery from the Great Recession, there were still fewer working-age natives holding a job in the first quarter of 2014 than in 2000, while the number of immigrants with a job was 5.7 million above the 2000 level.

We have just had the two largest decades of legal immigration in our history. Since 1990 27 million LEGAL IMMIGRANTS have entered this country. We take in 1.1 million legal immigrants a year and 20% of them are high school dropouts. In 1970 one in 21 was foreign-born; today, it is one in 8, the highest in 90 years; and within a decade, one in 7 will be foreign born, the highest in our history. We had 9.7 million foreign born in 1970 and that has more than quadrupled to 45 million today. Don't you think that this massive infusion of labor will have an impact on jobs and wages?

[Fester Chugabrew]

It appears you are stuck on the traditional definition of jobs, and dependent on the government for data. What I’m saying, for example, is that while we are assessing their viability in terms of citizenship, we should put them to work building the fence and taking action to mitigate the other damage caused by liberals. Deputize those who qualify to shoot taggers with paintball guns. Use them against liberals. Give them basic subsistence and allow them to grow their own food. At the same time, once the fence is complete, they should all be assessed in terms of loyalty and knowledge as to what US Citizenship means (something a good many American lazy bellies don’t care to learn). They should not be allowed to vote until they are citizens. Those who pass stay (as families) Those who fail, are deported (as families). The last thing we should do is sit around and watch liberals turn them into a voting bloc.

[kabar]

It appears you are stuck on the traditional definition of jobs, and dependent on the government for data.

It is called reality. You can't live in a fantasy world, which apparently you do.

What I’m saying, for example, is that while we are assessing their viability in terms of citizenship, we should put them to work building the fence and taking action to mitigate the other damage caused by liberals.

Slave labor? You are going to force people to build fences as a condition of citizenship? Any age or physical restrictions for these "fence buiders? Who pays the costs for housing, food, salaries (if any), etc.? You are delusional.

Give them basic subsistence and allow them to grow their own food. At the same time, once the fence is complete, they should all be assessed in terms of loyalty and knowledge as to what US Citizenship means (something a good many American lazy bellies don’t care to learn). They should not be allowed to vote until they are citizens. Those who pass stay (as families) Those who fail, are deported (as families). The last thing we should do is sit around and watch liberals turn them into a voting bloc.

The Democrats control the WH and the Senate. How are you going to implement this nonsensical scheme? Do you think our court system would permit it? Please, you are not a serious person. You are madder than a March hare.

[Fester Chugabrew]

Yes, it would be on a par with slave labor. Their status would have to be in limbo. But even slaves should be accorded a decent subsistence. There is a way to make jobs and work. All your government and statistics don’t help in the least. That’s reality, and it’s conservative.

[kabar]

You are still delusional and certainly not a conservative. You support government tyranny. And government doesn’t create jobs except those that enlarge its numbers. The taxpayer foots the bill.

[Fester Chugabrew]

I support government getting out of the way while conservatives teach people what it means to be free and prosperous. You seem to advocate government intervention not only in dealing with illegals, but also in “providing” jobs.

[kabar]

I support government getting out of the way while conservatives teach people what it means to be free and prosperous. You seem to advocate government intervention not only in dealing with illegals, but also in “providing” jobs.

LOL. You are the one suggesting that the government direct and fund what amounts to a slave labor brigade composed of immigrants to build a fence.

The Constitution requires the government to protect our sovereignty, including our borders. It must stop this foreign invasion of illegal aliens. It is a basic responsibility of government.

I don't advocate the government providing jobs--just the opposite. I want less regulation and more individual liberty. I want the entitlement programs, the biggest drivers of our debt, reformed.

[Fester Chugabrew]

I don’t believe I suggested government involvement at any point. I agree, it is their duty (ours together) to defend and protect. I also agree it is our duty to stop illegal immigration to the best of our ability. I trust you are aware of the reality that we already have millions in our midst, and that simply deporting them is no more effective than bailing water out of a sinking ship. If you want to sit back and let liberals drive the agenda and indoctrinate these illegals, that’s fine. But don’t complain when they are granted status neither you nor I want. If we rise up and educate them as conservatives, the liberals will be the first ones to ask for deportation. There’s plenty of work to do here, beginning with an exchange of people who appreciate our freedoms for those who undermine them.

[kabar]

I don’t believe I suggested government involvement at any point. I agree, it is their duty (ours together) to defend and protect. I also agree it is our duty to stop illegal immigration to the best of our ability. I trust you are aware of the reality that we already have millions in our midst, and that simply deporting them is no more effective than bailing water out of a sinking ship.

The proponents of amnesty are wont to create the false choice between a blanket amnesty and mass deportation of 12 to 20 million illegal aliens. In reality, we have other choices and alternatives that don’t reward people who have broken our laws with the right to stay and work here and an eventual path to citizenship. The 12 to 20 million illegal aliens did not enter this country overnight and they will not leave overnight. Attrition through enforcement works. We have empirical data from Georgia, Oklahoma, Alabama, and Arizona proving that it does.

If you want to sit back and let liberals drive the agenda and indoctrinate these illegals, that’s fine. But don’t complain when they are granted status neither you nor I want. If we rise up and educate them as conservatives, the liberals will be the first ones to ask for deportation. There’s plenty of work to do here, beginning with an exchange of people who appreciate our freedoms for those who undermine them.

Rise up how? The conservative message doesn't resonate with most minorities and immigrants. They support Big Government and want more services and free stuff. And every year we bring in hundreds of thousands of future Dem voters.

[Fester Chugabrew]

It is not the nature of conservatism to lump groups of people together. It does a disservice to conservative practice to treat everyone who crosses our borders as if they are only here to get free stuff.

Illegals should absolutely not be able to vote until they are genuine citizens, and they should not become genuine citizens until they can express, appreciate, and practice what citizenship means. Meanwhile its food, water, shelter, clothes, and every effort possible to keep them together as families for the sake of general civility. History is replete with conditions whereby people are granted a lower status (you seem to call them slaves), and are given opportunity to earn a higher status as citizens. It isn’t all bad.

By “rise up” I mean organize to meet these people face to face to take away the liberal’s incentive of gaining a dependent constituency. If we were first to provide humanitarian aid and service along with conservative teaching and opportunity (less the right to vote), liberals would be in shock; robbed of their precious clientele. Take “them” in and pull the rug right out from under those who aim to destroy American exceptionalism.

Conservatives have true compassion and act on it. They have all the right thoughts, actions, and alacrity to go far above anything liberals and their government enablers can do, along with force to back it up if necessary. There are ways to weed out folks who prefer the slavery of welfare to the freedom of self-governance and personal responsibility. Frankly, there are some who were born in this country who daily and richly prove themselves to be unworthy of citizenship; who should be placed on the other side of the fence once it is built.

As long as all Americans are not willing to take any and every job, there will be jobs American citizens won’t do. Again, let the illegals clean up the liberal hell holes, then - after they’ve proven themselves worthy of citizenship - let them vote the liberals into deportation. If they don’t want to do that, feed and clothe them for as long as it takes to get them back to their homelands as families.

[Fester Chugabrew]

I’d really like to see qualified illegals brought into cities to replace municipal union workers. Give them food, drink, clothing and shelter in exchange for doing the jobs union workers do either poorly or not at all. Send the commie union workers to Mexico and beyond.