Posted on 04/05/2014 7:41:07 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator
Some of you may remember a year or two ago I posted a question about an umpire's call that made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Now I'd like to again ask my fellow FReepers to explain to me something I've seen in a baseball game that makes no sense.
Last night in the St. Louis/Pittsburgh game, bottom of the first inning: the lead-off batter, Marte, walks. Man on first. The next batter hits a broken bat liner to the shortstop who catches it and steps on second. It is called an unassisted double play.
Now, as I understand it, the moment the ball was caught the force play at second should have been killed. Marte would have had to have been tagged or the ball thrown to first base. Yet from what I saw, the shortstop merely caught the ball and then stepped on second, and the play was definitely unassisted (so he didn't throw to first). How does this get Marte out? Is there some arcane rule that says in certain situations the fly out doesn't kill the force?
Every time I think I know this game . . . !
Sure, because the ump has to call it right away and with any real liner he would not get a chance to do that — except maybe from a very badly hit bunt, where the IFR doesn’t apply.
Tagging up is required from the first touch of a flyball by any fielder.
This means that if a fly ball is juggled in the outfield by a fielder and is eventually secured by the fielder, the out is recorded.
The runner however may advance after tagging up from the time that fielder first made contact with the ball.
Actually, I have heard of this one. The answer is no. The rule says a runner can tag and leave after “first contact”.
This actually happened to a friend of mine who coaches: He was coaching first, and his player came back before a tall fly came down, so he was standing on the bag. The center fielder stuck his glove up and the ball hit it, so my buddy sent the runner. BUT - the ball popped out of the center fielder’s glove, up and back into the waiting RIGHT fielder’s glove who was backing him up.
They threw to first, and thought they had a double play, but the ump explained the first contact rule and the runner stayed safe at second. Baseball is so cool.
Right. And the tagging-up runner does not HAVE to be on base
WHEN the ball is caught BUT he must go back and touch that
base after the ball is caught before he may advance. The old
ump posting here made it sound like a runner may not leave a
base before the fly ball hits grass or is caught. He certainly can
but he has to “tag-up” on a caught fly ball before advancing.
Exactly.
Depending on the softball league, you can't even take a lead off first.
In baseball, you ALWAYS have some kind of lead off first base, and with a sharply hit ball, you move down the line because you DON'T know if it will be caught/fielded.
It would be stupid not to. The ball takes one bounce and you're FORCED.
But YES, if caught on the fly by the fielder, the runner must go back to first or they can be thrown out if they don't get back in time.
Now that does happen a lot.
This was a runner who simply got tagged by the SS. But he would have been thrown out anyway, judging by the picture.
He was almost to second.
Ruled interference. I am guessing here, I believe all runners advance two bases.
Awe, c’mon back Mr. Umpire! We won’t beat on ya anymore tonight for making up your very own goofy Baseball rules! (We see ya are still with us tonight!)
As to your question I'm almost certain that it is still considered a live ball. NOT an out.
Like the situation where a player catches a ball in his cap.
And I know it's illegal to throw your mitt to stop a ball in any case.
Hence my confusion about the TWIB ruling.
Men’s Senior Softball has some really wild ‘rules’! (Mostly to just ‘protect us from ourselves’ and our old bones that we all seem to think are still 35 years old!!)
Remember that early 1980’s(?) Mariner game where their third baseman got down on his hands and knees and huffed and puffed and ‘blew’ a bunted ball into foul territory as it rolled down the third baseline? Sure a lot of crazy plays in MLB huh?
You really must treat yourself to the TWIB special (on youtube). That bunt highlight was shown. I think it would only “work” on astroturf, though.
Was that George Brett?
7.05 Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advance --
(b) Three bases, if a fielder deliberately touches a fair ball with his cap, mask or any part of his uniform detached from its proper place on his person. The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril;
(c) Three bases, if a fielder deliberately throws his glove at and touches a fair ball. The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril.
... But how about this:
7.05 (a) To home base, scoring a run, [...] if a fair ball which, in the umpire'’s judgment, would have gone out of the playing field in flight, is deflected by the act of a fielder in throwing his glove, cap, or any article of his apparel;
My understanding of the ASA rules [and based on the published differences between ASA and MLB rules] is that you can leave any base under ASA as soon as the ball has left the pitcher’s hand. Of course, not all softball leagues play ASA rules.
With respect to throwing the ball while in the glove, it isn't interference. AFAIK, it's only considered illegal to field a ball with a glove or part of your apparel.
In all the years that I played and watched baseball, I have never seen this called. Hence, my uncertainty with the actual penalty. Thanks.
I buy the MLB TV package.
No there is no penalty for running before a ball is caught. That’s called a steal, or a lead off.
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