Posted on 10/23/2013 11:12:44 AM PDT by Colofornian
A former Brigham Young University professor is sharing the story of how she and her husband, along all of with her children, left Mormonism for Christianity through Gods work of grace in their life.
Lynn Wilder is the author of the book Unveiling Grace: The Story of How We Found Our Way out of the Mormon Church, released in late August of this year. Until March 16, 2008, Wilder was a professor at Brigham Young University and a dedicated member of the Latter-Day Saints.
In a recent article in the Daily Beast, Wilder provided a condensed overview of her personal testimony, which occurred over a two-year period as God worked in the hearts of her family members.
Wilder states that in 2006, she and her husband Mike decided to visit a Christian church, but were careful to choose a gathering two hours away where no one would recognize them.
We were paranoid, worried that if someone from Brigham Young University saw me at a non-denominational Christian church, I would lose my ecclesiastical clearance and my job as a professor, Wilder wrote. Only at BYU would someone lose their academic position for finding salvation outside the Mormon church.
During this same time, Wilders son Micah became a born-again Christian. He announced to his fellow Mormon missionaries that he did not believe that men are saved by the works that Mormons require, and was sent home as unworthy to be a missionary. Just days later, Micah began serving a Christian organization in missions instead.
In the time that followed, Lynn Wilder began searching the Scriptures for answers. She states that the word of God opened her eyes to the truth.
I read my Bible, sometimes hours a day, and truly felt I was being washed, Wilder explained. In its pages, I met a Jesus who was able to save me from my life of working to be good.
Writer Sharon Lindbloom of Mormonism Research Ministry also notes that Wilders was impacted when she read 2 Corinthians 11:4, which states, For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another Gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Another Jesus! Wilder said to herself. Thats exactly what we have.
The movie Luther, which focuses on the life Protestant reformer Martin Luther and his repudiation of the requirements imposed under the Roman Catholic religion, hit home for Wilder as well. She knew full well of following man-made requirements under Mormon rules.
I was simply overwhelmed by the Spirit, she said. I went face down in surrender to Christ.
The Brigham Young professor then set out to buy herself a cross necklace to show her love for Christ, but there was one problemcrosses were taboo at the university.
Mormons dont revere the cross. They see it as an instrument of death, not the place where Christ became the savior, she stated. [I]f I was caught, I would be called in by my superiors and lose the ecclesiastical clearance I needed to work there.
So, Wilder hid it under her clothing with the hopes that no one saw.
Months later, Wilder requested a leave of absence and took another job in Florida. On March 16, 2008 (3/16/08), she submitted her resignation in honor of John 3:16. Both Wilder and her husband had renounced Mormonism and turned to Christ.
We lost a religion, but we gained Christ, Michael Wilder stated in the 2011 documentary Unveiling Grace. And thats a good trade.
When word broke, Wilder says that she received a lot of criticism, but states that her joys outweigh her sufferings.
I was stupid, a liar, an adulterer, a drug addict, and had committed gross sins, she said. Despite the rejection I faced from 30 years of friends, despite the fact that I lost status, position, money, might lose children and our home, I walked away and never feared again.
Now, Wilder is sharing her story with the world in spoken word and pen, and several of her children are likewise sharing the Gospel through the music ministry Adams Roadincluding her son Micah.
Words cannot describe the feeling of finally knowing the Lord Jesus Christ in a way that youve always wanted to, he said, becoming tearful. Reading His word for the very first time and being washed clean by that word and understanding what his Gospel really wasthats what changed my life.
Ill never be the same.
Be more specific. What exactly am I intellectually dishonest about Deification, Divinization or Theosis?
You and the rest of the posse hadn’t even heard of it until I told you about it. For all your research you don’t even know your own doctrines.
Be specific and show me point by point where I have been intellectually dishonest.
“There is no controlling legal authority that says this was in violation of law.” - Al Gore. Which organization on earth certifies you as Christian? Is it a simple appeal to authority or popularity?”
The Bible is the absolute authority, so when it rules out the existence of many gods, for example “Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any” (Isaiah 44:8), it rules out your theology, and puts you outside of it.
My theology squares with the Bible’s. Therefore, I am a Christian. Though, mind you, God is still the ultimate judge of that.
Nevertheless, whoever does not teach according to the word of God, as a matter of absolute truth, though of great sadness for your soul, is accursed:
Gal_1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
That is why all Christians, everywhere, reject Mormonism as a Christian religion, since it does not comply with the teachings of the scripture.
“Study what I originally said. You’ll understand the need for authority, God always grants it, and a formal priesthood leadership.”
What could possibly be of merit in your confused jumble of a post? which didn’t even prove what it set out to prove, despite your illogical conclusion. All you did was mash some words together, make an assertion, and then claimed victory.
No, the context of Jesus' discussion escapes you. The rich man was still under the old covenant which required the following of the law. After Jesus' sacrifice and resurrection the new covenant comes into effect and salvation is by grace and not works - read your bible
Ephesians 2:8-9) - "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast."
Rom. 3:20, 28) - "because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin...For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." (Galatians 2:16) - "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
You are being intellectually dishonest by equating mormon progression to godhood to theosis.
You and the rest of the posse hadnt even heard of it until I told you about it. For all your research you dont even know your own doctrines.
Don't inflate your self opinion 10, I known about theosis for quite some time now. You equate mormon progression to godhood to theosis is intellectually dishonest. That is the point. copy and paste the following link and you will see that fundamentally the two are not compatable
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Theosis
Well, obviously 1010...what's a "Christian" who calls Jesus/God "Lord" yet continually ignores what He directs?
It'd be like calling yourself "married" yet going out on your spouse, right? Obviously, one will perform good works for their spouse & refrain from adultery out of love...yet if you think your wife stays married ONLY or PRIMARILY because you've kept some magical "to do" list...such a legalistic approach to marriage is quite shallow.
In the same way, we embrace a RELATIONSHIP -- not a ritualistic religion!
Example: Note the word "KNOW": "this is eternal life, that you KNOW the only true God, and Him who thou didst send, Jesus Christ" (John 17:3, also Young's Literal translation)
[As an aside here, 1010, how could one possibly have a multiplicity of "only true gods"...
...[3 gods in the godhead, a mom god or multiple polygamous mom gods, the "council of gods" that Joseph Smith talked about who supposedly assigned Elohim as god of this planet, and a host of Mormon-turned-gods, some of those future gods]...
...without twisting Jesus' words in John 17:3 IS beyond any semblance of the language here.]
So let's review: Works work...because faith works. Faith isn't dormant, anymore than you would be a "husband-in-name-only" to your wife, right?
Let's look @ this New Testament-wise, also using Young's Literal translation:
* 12 So that, my beloved, as ye always obey, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, with fear and trembling your own salvation work out, 13 for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure. (Philippians 2)
So, yes, we agree 1010 that we "work out" our salvation per Phil. 2:12. But who gets this credit for working it out per verse 13? God does! He is working in us both to will and work...His enablement! His power!
Stop being a glory thief by taking credit for what HE does thru us!
Next verse:
* 28 They said therefore unto him, `What may WE DO that we may work the works of God?' 29 Jesus answered and said to them, `This is the work of God, that ye may believe in him whom He did send.' (John 6)
Here, we have Mormon-like people asking Jesus what spiritual checklist they need to perform in order to be found worthy of doing God's work? What does Jesus do? He turns this around -- as something GOD does..."This is the work of God..." ...and even here this "work of God" of simply believing [faith--what even children can do] is His work!!! He gets the credit and glory!
Sorry, 1010, but children who die short of obeying the rather lengthy Mormon spiritual checklist don't need an accomplishment resume'...They need faith, which has been GIVEN to them...And they need a faith that relates (communicative prayer, for example)...
When I read thru Mormon leaders' quotes...like the D&C study manual & other sources, I see constant references to checklists, laws, & other legalistic garbage.
So again: Stop being a glory thief, 1010!
The apostle Paul reaffirmed John 6: ...NO ONE [that means NO ONE, 1010] is able to say Jesus [is] Lord, except in the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor. 12:3)
Who gets the credit & the glory here, 1010? The Holy Spirit! Not you, and not some Mormon glory hound.
...looking to the author and perfecter of faith -- Jesus... (Hebrews 12:2)
Other versions reference this as the "author and finisher" of our faith...but "finisher" and "perfecter" is the same...Jesus authored our faith; He finishes/perfects it.
Who gets the credit & glory for that? Jesus does!
Stop being a glory thief by trying to claim credit for what He does IN and thru us!!!
Exactly.
And between 2007 and 2012 I gave dozens of postings where I spelled this out.
Here's the example I would give: I mentioned the TV series "24"...
In one of the seasons of "24" the president had to deal with the threat of dirty nuke bombs.
Simply put, there are SOME crises a POTUS goes thru or may have to go thru where He calls upon the Lord for deliverance, for resources beyond a POTUS' ability to handle.
In that circumstance, what do we want to endorse/sanction? Do we want to tell THE God of the universe that we endorsed a Prez who doesn't know the Ultimate God -- and won't call upon Him?
A Mormon POTUS who thinks it's A-OK to pray to a god who was never God from eternity past, but rose up from manhood to godhood...and who doesn't have ALL authority in every universe there is?
Joseph Smith said/wrote that some "council of gods" appointed the god of this earth. Smith also said that this god had a father, and that father had a father before him, ad infinitum.(this is found, btw, in the 1938 Deseret Book published under the title: Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith)
The infamous couplet Mormons embrace from one of its "prophets" -- Lorenzo Snow -- "as man is, God once was" is Mormon doctrine ... see http://blog.mrm.org/2012/05/does-mormonism-still-teach-god-the-father-was-once-a-man/
If the Mormon god was once a man, that means this Mormon man had one or more gods...and since Smith uses the word "council" and "gods" plural...we know the Mormon god was once authorityless; and Mormon doctrine is that he merely "organized" (not created out of nothing) the earth & universe...see D&C 93, etc.
This is NOT the God of the Bible!!!!
NT Christ...not OT God. Again, if Christ were sent to redeem, why does the mormon christ rampage in the BoM, but the Biblical Christ does nothing of the sort?
I suppose that for a less versed, less read person like myself, who doesn’t claim to be all knowing, I should be more clear when posing questions.
Either way, the BoM still is so replete with obvious contradictions, plagiarism and otherwise inept writing as to remain a curiosity to those who can see through the thin veneer of its claimed origin, nothing more.
Here's the $billion Q then, 1010: Do you, or don't you, know the Mormon teaching that ONLY those who wind up living in the celestial realm of heaven live eternally with Heavenly Father?
I respectfully request a "yes, I know" or "I'm not sure" or "No, they don't" answer to that Q right up front.
Because if you DO know this...and there's no reason not to given that
(a) It's been CLEARLY enunciated by Mormon leaders and
(b) I've mentioned this NUMEROUS times on FR threads,
then aren't you being intellectual dishonest with this comment of yours?
When you say, "The LDS would say you cannot gain celestial glory outside of the LDS church," what that really translates into Lds-doctrine wise is, "you cannot live with Heavenly Father unless you a married temple Mormon."
Therefore, since Christianity doesn't even recognize a heavenly Fatherless heaven (iow, a heaven minus Heavenly Father is no heaven at all!), then Mormonism is guilty of the same condemnation Jesus gave to legalistic Pharisaicalism:
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in peoples faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. (Matthew 23:13)
Mormons attempt to "shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces" by claiming that you have to be a married temple Mormon to live with eternal Father forever! Not such a Mormon? Then per Mormonism, no Heavenly Father for you!!!
How can you MAKE such an outrageous claim??!!??
Why; lookee here!!!
"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."---Joseph Knight's journal.
--MormonDude(I trust in Joseph Smith: he wouldn't lead us astray...)
Are you talking of THIS 'teaching'; found in the Temple Recommend® yearly quiz questions?
Temple Recommend Questions
1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost? 2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer? 3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days? 4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church? 5 Do you live the law of chastity? 6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church? 7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? 8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel? 9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen? 10 Are you a full-tithe payer? 11 Do you keep the Word of Wisdom? 12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations? 13 If you have previously received your temple endowment: Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple? Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple? 14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been? 15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances? |
HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):
HELL: A place of torment from which the worst of sinners are resurrected (if they repent) into the Telestial kingdom; only a limited number remain in hell forever, - the devil and the demons and apostates who consciously reject and work against Mormonism.
"Now, it may be contended that a judgment, with some degree of salvation for all, encourages the sinner to pursue his dark ways. Not so. However generous the judgment, it is measured by our works. Our punishment will be the heavy regret that we might have received a greater reward, a higher kingdom, had our lives conformed more nearly to truth. Such remorse may yield keener pain than physical torture." (Understandable Religion, p. 89)
While Widtsoe is careful not to call a heavenly kingdom "hell", he is nonetheless certain that there will be a keen regret for lost opportunities:
"Humanity will be grouped according to their works in three main divisions: Celestial (like the sun), Telestial (like the moon), Terrestrial (like the earth). Within each group there will be many gradations and divisions, until from the lowest to the highest in all groups there will be a series of gradually ascending glories. There can be no talk of a hell, except for the few 'sons of Perdition,' but undoubtedly the regret for lost opportunities will be keen among those in the lower degrees of glory." (Program of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 226)
Joseph Fielding Smith, on the other hand, considers the tormenting regret experienced in the bottom two heavenly kingdoms and concludes "in that sense it will be hell":
"This earth will become a celestial kingdom when it is sanctified. Those who enter the terrestrial kingdom will have to go to some other sphere which will be prepared for them. Those who enter the telestial kingdom, likewise will have to go to some earth which is prepared for them, and there will be another place which is hell where the devil and those who are punished to go with him will dwell. Of course, those who enter the telestial kingdom, and those who enter the terrestrial kingdom will have the eternal punishment which will come to them in knowing that they might, if they had kept the commandments of the Lord, have returned to his presence as his sons and his daughters. This will be a torment to them, and in that sense it will be hell." (Answers to Gospel Questions, v. 2, p. 210)
This line of thinking is interesting in light of Joseph Smith's following teaching:
"A man is his own tormenter and his own condemner. Hence the saying, They shall go into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. The torment of disappointment in the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstone" (TPJS, p. 357)
The entry in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism on "Damnation" essentially explains that the bottom two kingdoms of heaven are kingdoms of damnation:
"Just as there are varying degrees and types of salvation, coupled with eternal progression in some areas (D&C 76:96-98; 131:1-4), so are there varying degrees and types of damnation. In LDS doctrine, to be damned means to be stopped, blocked, or limited in one's progress. Individuals are damned whenever they are prevented from reaching their full potential as children of God. Damnation is falling short of what one might have enjoyed if one had received and been faithful to the whole law of the gospel. In this sense, all who do not achieve the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom are damned, even though they are saved in some degree of glory."
It’s BOILING in here!!!
(Or maybe it’s just me...)
"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;
and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,
and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.
Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)
So...based upon 2 Corinthians 10:3-5...would you then accuse the apostle Paul of this same thing?
3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
So, when the apostle Paul uses the power of God's word to "demolish arguments and every pretension" setting "itself up against the knowledge of God", demolishing strongholds in the process, that to you -- by extension -- must also be "persecuting"...
Sorry...that doesn't fly just because the goal is demolishing strongholds, arguments and pretensions. According to Paul, these setting themselves up vs. God's knowledge are worthy of such spiritual demolition derbies.
You may disagree that Mormonism is such a "setting itself up vs. God's knowledge." I understand that.
What you cannot ignore -- and fly into secular arguments/apologetics -- is that indeed strongholds, arguments, and pretensions...per the apostle Paul...are in the world & are in need of demolition.
You: Replace every reference in this thread with Jew and it might be clearer to you.
Hence...once you philosophically agree that 2 Cor. 10:3-5 establishes a clear Biblical precedence for engaging in such demolition...
...then...say somebody was attempting to demolish a particularly Jewish stronghold/argument/pretension set up vs. God's knowledge...you cannot automatically knee-jerkedly write off some demolition as "bigoted" and "persecuting" just because said stronghold/argument/pretension had "Jewish" origins.
That would be giving free passes to certain arguments just because of the race of the beholder...which is, btw, reverse racism...judging truth by either their skin color or tribal heritage.
Are a reverse racist? Do you judge truth by the race of the beholder?
Are Zionites -- whether they be Jewish or Mormon...since Mormon labels itself the ONLY true "Zion" on the face of the earth...
...ones who get a free pass from careful examination of its true claims...
...lest its defenders accuse anybody of critiquing them as "bigots" and "persecutors"?????
Just shows yet another pot-shot op you took as an excuse for you to personally attack posters vs. actually deal with Mormonism's claims vs. both historical realities and the Bible.
Yup; that's MY mission!!
2 Corinthians 10:3-5
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ...
Bring it, Dude!!
Use that verse #1 in all of it's might!!
...expounding the mysteries thereof out of the scriptures...
The
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 71
Revelation given to Joseph Smith the Prophet and Sidney Rigdon, at Hiram, Ohio, December 1, 1831. HC 1: 238239. The Prophet had continued to translate the Bible with Sidney Rigdon as his scribe until this revelation was received, at which time it was temporarily laid aside so as to enable them to fulfill the instruction given herein. The brethren were to go forth to preach in order to allay the unfriendly feelings that had developed against the Church as a result of the publication of some newspaper articles by Ezra Booth, who had apostatized.
14, Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon are sent forth to proclaim the gospel; 511, Enemies of the saints shall be confounded.
1 Behold, thus saith the Lord unto you my servants Joseph Smith, Jun., and Sidney Rigdon, that the time has verily come that it is necessary and expedient in me that you should open your mouths in proclaiming my gospel, the things of the kingdom, expounding the mysteries thereof out of the scriptures, according to that portion of Spirit and power which shall be given unto you, even as I will.
2 Verily I say unto you, proclaim unto the world in the regions round about, and in the church also, for the space of a season, even until it shall be made known unto you.
3 Verily this is a mission for a season, which I give unto you.
4 Wherefore, labor ye in my vineyard. Call upon the inhabitants of the earth, and bear record, and prepare the way for the commandments and revelations which are to come.
5 Now, behold this is wisdom; whoso readeth, let him understand and receive also;
6 For unto him that receiveth it shall be given more abundantly, even power.
7 Wherefore, confound your enemies; call upon them to meet you both in public and in private; and inasmuch as ye are faithful their shame shall be made manifest.
8 Wherefore, let them bring forth their strong reasons against the Lord.
9 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto youthere is no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper;
10 And if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confounded in mine own due time.
11 Wherefore, keep my commandments; they are true and faithful. Even so. Amen.
The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
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