There are no universal values in secularism. Where could they come from? If they come from men, they can’t be universal, because they would be subject to our “cultural biases”. If they come from someone other than men, secularists won’t accept them.
It’s fun to watch leftists/secularists stumble on the problem of the arbitrariness and baselessness of any “values” that they espouse,
especially when you point it out in person, one on one.
They usually point to some “consensus”, but the funny thing about that is, there were consensus in the past that would be abhorred today, and in the future, present day consensus will be considered evil.
So who’s right, hmmmm?
That’s when they name call.