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To: schurmann
Let us first be clear on military versus sporting applications.

let us be even more clear, I am thinking about COMWEC weapons and weapons to be used after the leftists manage to make NATO ammo largely unavailable to civilians. I am also thinking about the handloader.

I do not mean to imply the 30/06 is better than the .308 for general military purposes. I just, generally speaking, don't find any fault in it and I find compelling reasons to have a rifle chambered for it, especially a semi-automatic rifle with a detachable box magazine. And the fact remains, anything the .308 can do, the 30/06 can do a little bit better and, in some cases, it can do a lot better. I can't imagine not having a 30/06 in your collection.

Incidentally, AR10 platforms cannot chamber the long standard-head cartridges like 25-06, 270, or 30-06; they are simply too long to fit. 7.62mm NATO barely makes it, and the platform still has to be enlarged above the M16 size receiver components. 300 Winchester Mag is out of the question.

Behold, the BN36, available in 30/06, 25/06, and .270:

I want one in all three calibers. Oh yeah. they also make one in 300 win mag BTW but it costs as much as .50 cal. It is sweeeet though.

I also would like a 22-250 chambered AR15 because nothing says destructive energy like a 55 grain V-max travelling at 3700 fps. Olympic arms makes one. I haven't heard enough good things about it to justify buying it yet. It is, however, a good idea.

101 posted on 09/22/2013 7:51:43 PM PDT by RC one
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To: RC one

“... let us be even more clear, I am thinking about COMWEC weapons and weapons to be used after the leftists manage to make NATO ammo largely unavailable to civilians. I am also thinking about the handloader.”

If clarity is at issue, let me hasten to point out that I had no intention of mixing military and individual concerns any more than I had to. I was merely attempting to describe how the defense establishment ended up in the situations in which it has found itself. Not that I can justify all the decisions made, nor defend every result.

The 30-06 indeed has the reputation of being more forgiving when it comes to handloading.

Whatever the Left contrives, the popularity of 30-06 and 308 rifles (and handguns, now) will increase the likelihood of finding non-military ammunition in military calibers, from commercial sources, and in out of the way locales. Have you visited a hardware store in any of the smaller towns, in the rural High Plains regions or the Mountain West? A box or three of 30-06 or 308 can almost always be found; 243 or 270 might be there but in lesser quantity, 25-06 rather less likely. You can forget 300 Winchester Magnum.

“I do not mean to imply the 30/06 is better than the .308 ... can’t imagine not having a 30/06 ...”

The shooting public doesn’t disagree. Last time I got any news, sales of reloading dies and components for 30-06 outnumbered every other single rifle cartridge. I cannot imagine failing to own a 30-06: I myself keep four in the home: three ex-US military and one sporter. The best is the M1 I obtained back when the CMP was still the Army’s DCM; in it I have the highest degree of confidence. The sporter, a commercial production rifle, has done its job so well and so faithfully (even against varmints, firing indifferently concocted rounds from GI cases) that I still keep it standing by, 39 years after the fact. Never saw much point in spending the cash on any of the flashier, crazier, hotter-performing civilian sporting chamberings.

“Behold, the BN36, available in 30/06, 25/06, and .270: ... they also make one in 300 win mag ...”

The choices available to the shooting consumer continue to multiply. I rejoice in the expansion of opportunity; may each find a niche in which it more fully performs the task its buyer wants accomplished.

But a BN-36 is not an AR-10, which in turn is not an AR-15. They may all claim the same parentage when it comes to design concept and operating principles, but all are differently dimensioned platforms and few parts are going to interchange.

“... I also would like a 22-250 chambered AR15 because nothing says destructive energy like a 55 grain V-max travelling at 3700 fps. Olympic arms makes one. I haven’t heard enough good things about it to justify buying it yet. It is, however, a good idea.”

Noting the unexciting barrel life I’ve observed in many rifles chambering 22-250, I’m less than hopeful. I take a similarly cautious position on the 300 Win Mag. They deliver superior performance for the sporting user, but pose immediate problems for any user in a home defense or local security situation. Flexibility of handloading is also hampered: the 22-250 in particular delivers its best performance at muzzle velocities above 3500 ft/sec, but at that speed some light-jacket bullets come apart from air resistance. And since component variety/availability can only be degraded in troubled times, these sorts of problems count against such chamberings.

At the end of the day, both the military user and the individual user run into cost constraints. Though one may coaxe truly spectacular results from a 22-250 or a 300 Win Mag, each platform is going to cost that much more. Inevitably.


112 posted on 09/28/2013 12:36:35 PM PDT by schurmann
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