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Dave Says Let Him Fire Himself ^ | July 2, 2013 | Dave Ramsey

Posted on 07/24/2013 9:35:45 AM PDT by Altariel

Dear Dave,

Is it okay to pay two employees who do the same jobs different salaries?


Dear Eric,

Sure, it’s okay. Fair isn’t always equal, and equal isn’t always fair. There are no two people on earth who do the same, exact jobs with the same, exact levels of competency and precision.

Here’s a more detailed example. Let’s say I had two personal assistants within my organization. Both of them worked as assistants to vice presidents, but one has been on my team for 10 years and is the assistant to someone whose department is very large and profitable. The other assistant works for a vice president who runs a new department that’s not yet profitable. Besides that, she was hired only 10 months ago.

In my mind, it’s easy to understand why the assistant who has been there longer and is working for a more profitable department would be making more money. That just makes sense to me.


Dear Dave,

There’s a guy working for me who has been a real superstar most of the time he has been here. I like him a lot, but he has really slacked off over the last several months, and it seems his biggest problem is arrogance. I’ve talked to him before, but it’s causing problems for the company as a whole. What’s your advice for knowing when it’s time to fire someone?


Dear John,

Have you ever been fired? I have, and in most cases it’s a bad day. Sometimes you get fired and it’s a realization, though. You may even think, “Man, I should’ve just quit sooner.” But most of the time, it’s a pretty rough day for the boss and the team member who’s walking out the door.

I always try to spend a few minutes walking in the other person’s shoes in situations like this. I would want to have let the person know there were problems, and have given them every chance to turn things around. This kind of thing should never come as a surprise. I mean, you’re talking about someone’s job and livelihood being on the line. Being unclear or less than honest at a time like this would be unfair.

Take this guy for a cup of coffee. Make sure it’s just the two of you in a place without a lot of distractions and other people buzzing around. Let him know first how much you like him, and recall how great he was when he came onboard. Then talk about the issues over the last several months. Give him a chance to open up about any problems he’s having, but be very clear that these issues have pushed you to the point where you have to consider letting him go.

You just never know what might be going on in someone’s life that could affect their personality or job performance. As a leader, you need to know these things in order to be fair. You don’t have to know all the little details of someone’s personal life, but you should know enough to be aware of the impact they could have on the job. Then, if he’s having problems in an area of his life, try to address those. Offer whatever help you can give and let him know how much you want him to succeed, not just at his job, but in life.

After all this, if he says everything is fine and things are going well outside work, it’s time to be firm. Let him know one more time what’s missing and how to fix it. Be clear that this is his final warning. In other words, “Dude, if you don’t bring it, you’re gone.” That’s what I would want, because then I’d know the gravity of the situation and the expectations.

Then, if he doesn’t bring it, he’ll be firing himself. It’s a tough thing, but it’s the consequence of crappy behavior in the workplace.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: daveramsey; employee; employer; ramsey

1 posted on 07/24/2013 9:35:45 AM PDT by Altariel
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To: Altariel

That’s pretty good advice

Better then just bringing him in and starting a ‘paper trail’ for firing

2 posted on 07/24/2013 9:40:22 AM PDT by Mr. K (4 election)
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To: Altariel

Not if one is ‘White’ and one is minority.

3 posted on 07/24/2013 9:46:07 AM PDT by I want the USA back (If I Pi$$ed off just one liberal today my mission has been accomplished.)
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To: I want the USA back

A whole different and sad dynamic.

4 posted on 07/24/2013 10:03:18 AM PDT by wally_bert (There are no winners in a game of losers. I'm Tommy Joyce, welcome to the Oriental Lounge.)
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To: CSM; Kaslin

Dave Ramsey ping!

5 posted on 07/24/2013 10:16:13 AM PDT by Altariel ("Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!")
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To: Altariel

Great advice! Too bad it is so seldom used.

6 posted on 07/24/2013 10:19:33 AM PDT by Shery (in APO Land)
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To: Altariel

10 will get you 20 the guy who slacked off ran up against an internal wall that prevented him from making the needed changes. The management team that says they want change doesn’t always mean it.

7 posted on 07/24/2013 10:46:18 AM PDT by reed13k (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: reed13k

If that is the case, better for him to work hard, maintain his skills, and either go into business for himself or work for an employer who better appreciates his contributions.

8 posted on 07/24/2013 10:47:52 AM PDT by Altariel ("Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!")
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To: Altariel

Don’t disagree when the opportunity presents itself or he is able to make the opportunity, I’m sure he’ll do that.

9 posted on 07/24/2013 10:57:37 AM PDT by reed13k (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: Hoosier Catholic Momma; CottonBall; TenthAmendmentChampion; Chickensoup; JDoutrider; ...

EntreLeadership style Dave Ramsey Ping!

10 posted on 07/25/2013 9:23:00 AM PDT by CSM (Keeper of the Dave Ramsey Ping list. FReepmail me if you want your beeber stuned.)
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To: Altariel
A little off topic, but Dave Ramsey related.

Something interesting happened on September 20th. It wasn’t earth shattering. It won’t change the world, cure cancer or impact the average person. You would have to be part of a Nashville based tribe or an observer of that tribe to even have a minimal interest.

The happening? Jon Acuff, the popular blogger, author, speaker and motivator suddenly and without warning resigned, immediately, from his dream job. You read right. The man who hitched his wagon to the Dave Ramsey dynasty and found his dream job apparently without warning quit.

Now Jon wrote a book called “Quitter”. So quitting isn't something new to him. If I recall, he notes in the Quitter book that he had quit 8 jobs within a time span of 8 years.

But you'll also find in the book he stressed that those who wish to become a Quitter and to do so successfully it’s so important to have a plan. A road map. A guide to what's next in regard to steps that need to be taken to assure growth instead of implosion.

Yet in Jon’s public explanation of leaving, he writes “This was not about another opportunity. I don't have a literary agent or a speaking agent or a publishing deal on the table. I don't have anything else that drew me away from the company or created a wedge.”

Apparently, he broke his own rule. The rule that says have a plan. Don't leave the world of being cubicle-bound to outward bound without having a plan to avoid committing financial and marital hara-kiri along the way.

Yet Jon, in his own words, seems to have left Ramsey's company without a plan. Without speaking gigs lined up outside of those arranged that had been arranged and in all likelihood now cancelled by Ramsey’s company. Without apparent books in the pipeline. Without a source of income unless he has residuals from the books he's already written.

Jon also noted in explaining what didn't happen that this was not an integrity or moral issue. "I have not broken any moral clause or anything like that. Furthermore, Dave Ramsey and the entire team there are the most integrity-driven group I have ever worked for.”

While Jon writes in a hard manner about his side of the integrity or morals issue, the Ramsey side of the equation is softer in emphasis.

One can be driven by integrity and still miss the mark. I know personally of people who despite lot’s of talk and even deep desire to exude integrity from their pores sometimes fail to measure up and deliver. But even with the sometimes critical eye I have they would be what I call “integrity driven”. There is desire. Results may vary.

So why would Jon leave his dream job? Remember the key words. Dream job.

There is apparently no other opportunity in the wings. There seems to be no integrity issue. And according to Jon it wasn't a financial issue. Yet he walked, apparently without warning, from his dream job.

So while Jon has explained the reasons that weren't the catalyst of his sudden and quick departure, he’s said nothing as to what the key driver or drivers to depart were.

For now, most people who are in the Ramsey/Acuff tribe(s) I mentioned at the opening of this writing are happy with the non-explanation. But is that more circling the wagons which tribes tend to do? Or are they afraid of tearing away a facade of one or both of the parties that reveals something not so pretty?

But is an explanation owed? Truthfully, neither Jon nor Ramsey and his company owe the public anything in the way of an explanation.

Well maybe.

For it was both Dave and Jon who made very public how they joined together and continued in a, at least from perception, tight relationship from the beginning with mutual admiration flowing back and forth between each party as well as leveraging the dollars along the way. Or maybe that was all it was. The dollar potential that drove the public mutual admiration society?

And it was Jon who was being groomed along with Chris Hogan and Rachael Ramsey Cruze as the heirs of the English speaking side of the Ramsey motivational circuit as Dave began the transition of the business as he moves to an age where life is here today and gone tomorrow.

Acuff was featured in the latest release of Financial Peace University as well as was a large part of the Legacy Journey live events presentation. Plus Acuff was running Quitter and Start conferences all under the umbrella and with the marketing clout of Ramsey.

All appeared to be going smoothly and seamlessly. But maybe it wasn't? What I've learned in life is that every company that’s very much in the public eye tends to have what I refer to as a Wizard of Oz effect. While building on a platform of hope, there is lot’s of flash, pomp and illusion. The old smoke and mirrors. Some are worse than others. But all are driven by a man or woman performing out front but in reality behind a curtain with the hopes we won't see how human they really are. Pay attention to the bigger theme and not the details.

Yet if you pull aside the curtain there’s often something often not expected. Need an example? Read the reviews on the web site Glass Door on Dave Ramsey and Lampo. While certainly not terrible, there still is a lot of what you wouldn't expect being expressed by current and former employees based on what you hear coming from the company. Things that attending an Entreleadership conference or reading the Entreleaderhship book indicate that don't happen, yet they do.

So is something like any of the above was what Acuff ran into and he decided he could no longer tolerate it? He pulled the curtain aside and didn't like what he really saw? Or is he just one of those types that seems to be going on just fine only to be holding back a flame out even while working in his dream job?<8> Or was the dream job really facade to cover a nightmare that finally had to end? Remember, dreams can be both joyous or nightmares. Jon never disclosed which end of the dream spectrum the dream job was.

Bottom line? We may never know. Although former fellow employee Chris LoCurto who left at the beginning of the year to strike out on his own just wrote a blog explaining in great detail why he chose to leave which included that Dave Ramsey strongly encouraged Christ to stay over a period of a few weeks. Will we get the same from Acuff?

Jon needs Dave's good name to continue in the business he's in. Dave doesn't need for the facade, if it is indeed a Wizard of Oz effect, to be exposed. Each needs to take as well as for the other party to take the high road going forward.

It's going to be an interesting dance for these two in the immediate future.

11 posted on 09/26/2013 4:13:34 AM PDT by joesbucks
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To: joesbucks

I’d say what happened is Mr. Acuff’s and Mr. Ramsey’s business.


12 posted on 09/26/2013 9:10:47 AM PDT by Altariel ("Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!")
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To: Altariel
I’d say what happened is Mr. Acuff’s and Mr. Ramsey’s business. Freegards,

Shouldn't the mutual admiration have been the same way over the past 3 years?

13 posted on 09/26/2013 6:09:47 PM PDT by joesbucks
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