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To: 1010RD
By liberty, do you mean a once again federal government that is kept in its constitutional box?

It took a long time, but I have come around to James Madison's thinking about rights/powers. He agreed to push for what became the first ten amendments only under pressure from the Anti-Federalists who threatened to upset the operation of the new government.

Virginia had a famous Declaration of Rights which protected the people . . . until it didn't. It was from experience that Madison referred to bills of rights as parchment barriers. Nice, but effective only if the politicians could be convinced to respect them.

Madison emphasized pitting interest against interest, divided power to keep too much power from falling into too few hands. It was ONLY through state participation in the new government that our freedoms could be respected. I think history has shown that to be the general situation before the 17th.

Prior to the 17th, in whose hands did power rest? One president, 435 congressmen, 100 senators, a thousand(?) federal judges, PLUS thousands of state legislators. That situation divided power such that tyranny was next to impossible.

Power was so divided, and yes, among some dishonest, dirtbag politicians, yet the damage they could do to our liberties was minimized by the structure of the government.

Oh, and I would add we've had the same bill of rights since 1791. Have they secured our liberties? As Madison knew from experience parchment barriers are just that.

60 posted on 07/12/2013 6:11:37 AM PDT by Jacquerie (To restore the 10th Amendment, repeal the 17th.)
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To: Jacquerie

A most excellent post.


61 posted on 07/12/2013 6:18:46 AM PDT by TADSLOS (The Event Horizon has come and gone. Buckle up and hang on.)
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To: Jacquerie

Absolutely. Madison was dealing with the historical, current (his time) and future reality of human polities - corruption is normal. It is only through competing interests that rights are preserved.

Too much democracy kills. Swift governmental action on any subject is by its very nature dictatorial.


64 posted on 07/12/2013 6:58:36 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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