Posted on 08/23/2012 9:52:00 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
To borrow a famous line, the problem with most people trying to understanding the true nature of historical sword combat is not that they're ignorant — it's just that they know so much that isn't so.
It's amazing, really, how a subject that so permeates our modern pop culture, and is so ubiquitous, is one which virtually no one any longer has any real world experience in, nor pursues for its original function. As a result, most all our conceptions of sword-fighting get it wrong. The reality of it is not what you think it is.
(Excerpt) Read more at io9.com ...
Not true. Swords were kept as sharp as their owner could make them. That would be like saying that modern soldiers don't clean their rifles.
Precisely.
No one cares.
Actually in other articles, he's said repeatedly that there are no modern day "masters" and likely will never be. The true medieval and renaissance masters were men that lived a lifetime of actually fighting for their very lives against opponents who were trying to kill them. Since there is virtually no chance of such stakes becoming commonplace today, there can't truly be anyone who can present themselves as a "master".
Not so. A typical broadsword (or longsword) weighed about 3 to 3.5 pounds. I have several. They are surprisingly nimble and quick.
Japanese sword-fighting on the other hand was a little more refined (but still bloody and vicious) because quite simply their swordmaking was superior and the blades much lighter.
I think this myth is just an artifact of the movies... Which show a modern and stylized sport form of their medieval arts. I think it gives short shrift to western swordcraft and metallurgy to suggest that it was necessarily inferior to japanese technology of the time.
While I agree with you in principle, a Grammar Nazi should really learn what a preposition is before claiming someone ended a sentence with one! :)
As an aside, the poster you are referring to DID deserve a dressing down for being an elitist, but you make yourself look dumb by making demonstrably false accusations.
I'll have to see if I can find that book. I appreciate your notes.
Warmest regards!
My version was a paperback that I got on line.
I read and re read it because it is so well written and interesting.
There are copious foot notes and they are as interesting and information as the text, if not more so.
He was a real scholar, courageous explorer and also an linguist. Burton was so interesting and I think a real eccentric person. His wife (crazy woman) burned much of his work after he died and so things were lost.
See if you can’t get his bio because it is worth reading, too.
Representative Akins’ first appearance in film....
http://www.amazon.com/The-Archaeology-Weapons-Prehistory-Chivalry/dp/0486292886
This book by Ewart Oakeshott is to me a fascinating look at
weapons from the stone age up to the Renaissance.
Also keep in mind that most warriors wouldn’t be using their swords to block another blade unless they had to. That will ruin a sword.
Thank you.
As an aside, the poster you are referring to DID deserve a dressing down for being an elitist, but you make yourself look dumb by making demonstrably false accusations.
You obviously missed the joke.
Larger point: no one cares.
Soooo many misconceptions in the comments here, it is hard to know where to begin. Perhaps the first place is to warn people not to take what in in any movie as fact. For example, Braveheart’s depiction of the Battle of Sterling Bridge without a bridge, and Sir William Wallace in a kilt...
Medieval swords were NOT heavy, being actually comparable in weight to the Japanese blades. After all, steel is steel... it doesn’t weigh more in Europe. They were sharp. You can block with them, you must know how to do so.
The Norse had similar pattern welded steel methods to the Japanese, as well. They produced “damascus” steel (the steel which appears to have waves and swirls in it). It is made by forging two different carbon steels together, with twists and folds.
Armor is easy to move in. Its weight is well distributed around the body. You can easily climb onto a horse, or even be able to cartwheel in properly made and fitted gear. Jousting armor was specialized.
Fighting was NOT battering into submission and bleeding out. It was very sophisticated, and involved pointwork, edgework, halfswording, wrestling with joint breaks, etc. Attacks are typically to the joints. There were various schools of swordplay throughout Europe. For a good overview, I suggest Dr. Sydney Anglo’s “The Martial Arts of Renaissance Europe”.
The Western Martial Arts (WMA) are enjoying a revival right now, and much is being learned from original source manuals. There is a lot of reconstruction going on, and there are several groups working on various aspects. Mr. Clements’ group is one of these. He generally knows his stuff. He also has the reputation for being an self-promoting egotist and convinced utterly of his version of things. Caveat emptor.
Thanks for your comments. You’re spot on point.
Relax, historians. This is another John Clement article. He’s a well known “character” in hoplogical circles. Nobody of serious study gives him much regard. He got his start when the early public use of the internet (mid 90s) resulted in a sudden proliferation (by people like William Wilson and Patri Pugliese) of old texts which, while known among scholars, were just being discovered by Highlander fandom. He got out in front of his particular crowd and declared himself the leader of movement of which he was not even a member. He proclaimed himself to be a true and proper swordsman and weaponsmaster and THEN cracked the books. Being studied in neither the language nor histories of the nations from his source material comes, he is as qualified to interpret a Talhoffer book as Joseph Smith was to interpret hieroglyphs — and they are mostly illustrations (Talhoffer, that is).
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