Posted on 06/24/2012 7:09:23 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
No degree guarantees that a college graduate will earn more over a lifetime than a high school student.
Worse still, there are many degrees where the average high school graduate will likely out-earn a college graduate.
If you’ve ever wanted to know the two main reasons why Americans decide not to go to college, the St. Louis Fed presented two convincing explanations. The more frightening of the two scenarios showed that, for students paying their own tuition, most will need a starting salary of $40,000 or better to overcome lifetime earnings of high school graduates.
How can it be that someone with a $40,000 starting salary can’t out-earn the average high school graduate? The reason is two-fold. Most college students forgo income while attending college. Also, given the average annual tuition of $25,000, a student paying his own way is facing a $100,000 college bill. Add the loss of income and the six-digit education tab, and graduates start their professional lives in a large financial hole.
If a starting salary of $40,000 is what it takes to overcome the high costs of going to college, you will want to know what degrees aren’t averaging the benchmark income. Georgetown pulled together statistics on average starting salary for many popular degrees. Below are five degrees with average starting salaries that may not be worth paying the costs for college.
(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...
“The degrees are not worth the cost if what you want is just money. People attain degrees for all sorts of reasons, and money is not necessarily the primary reason.”
Sure, and if they pay THEMSELVES for their degrees, then we wouldn’t even be reading this article (and there would be a lot less useless professors). The problem is that there are hundreds of billions of dollars in outstanding loans that taxpayers are ultimately on the hook for, so we take notice.
Ah, but with a master's degree, she can get into the community college and start teaching the next generation of IT professionals at ~$35 per hour or so. Three years (part-time) experience in the CC and she can be picked up full-time, and those positions start at $50k around here.
Of course, that's peanuts compared to what a real IT professional can make, but then who would teach the next generation if it wasn't for the failures in the field?
Ah, but with a master's degree, she can get into the community college and start teaching the next generation of IT professionals at ~$35 per hour or so. Three years (part-time) experience in the CC and she can be picked up full-time, and those positions start at $50k around here.
Of course, that's peanuts compared to what a real IT professional can make, but then who would teach the next generation if it wasn't for the failures in the field?
Don’t let these guys get to you, they actually do mean well, but have trouble understanding the need for sharp people that don’t sit behind a desk all day and do PowerPoint charts.
I have one of my kids (teenager) replacing a clutch as I type. A year ago me and the boys built a shed in the yard, using the same framing techniques that are used in (well-built) homes to withstand hurricanes. They can also do just about any routine auto repair (alternator, timing belt, drive axle, etc.), can do wiring reasonably well (with some oversight), and can sweat copper joints. We haven’t had enough air conditioner breakdowns or they’d learn that too.
But, most likely, they’ll still end up as engineers, since their academics (particularly math and reading, which I taught them) are many years ahead of their peers. But they will also have the skills they need to practically never have to rely on “the man” to fix their stuff and they will (hopefully) be able to distinguish between the need to replace a start capacitor and the need to replace a compressor unit.
Having drilled through top plates using right angle drill with a 2-9/16 hole cutter (for 2” Schedule 40 vent pipe), I can tell you that I have a ton of respect for you guys. Maybe when my kids are 25 years old I’ll introduce them to that particular skill, since, for now, I prefer them to not have broken arms or wrists.
Old enough to know better young enough to do it again. Not sure why age is an issue. The military turned me down at age 19.
Old enough to know better young enough to do it again. Not sure why age is an issue. The military turned me down at age 19.
I left the automotive field. I am still an ase master tech. The money has left the field for mechanics. I started wrenching at 80k a year and quit when my experience was 10 plus years and shops where offering 15 to 20 an hour on flat rate.
“I left the automotive field. I am still an ase master tech. The money has left the field for mechanics. I started wrenching at 80k a year and quit when my experience was 10 plus years and shops where offering 15 to 20 an hour on flat rate.”
Damn. Popular Mechanics used to run some of the questions from the ASA test. They were vicious. Something like the “The headlights fail on a 1983 Ford Ranger, this could be due to: (1) An intermittent short circuit in the integrated headlight turn-signal switch; (2) A loose ground on the B58 fender stud; or (3) A pressure differential between the headlight (interior) and the ambient air, due to a clog in the vent line.”
Like I’m supposed to be able to answer that question.
Nice job, ASE is not easy to achieve. So what happened to kill off the value of your skill? Too many mechanics, maybe too many “off the books mechanics”?
“I left the automotive field. I am still an ase master tech. The money has left the field for mechanics. I started wrenching at 80k a year and quit when my experience was 10 plus years and shops where offering 15 to 20 an hour on flat rate.”
Damn. Popular Mechanics used to run some of the questions from the ASA test. They were vicious. Something like the “The headlights fail on a 1983 Ford Ranger, this could be due to: (1) An intermittent short circuit in the integrated headlight turn-signal switch; (2) A loose ground on the B58 fender stud; or (3) A pressure differential between the headlight (interior) and the ambient air, due to a clog in the vent line.”
Like I’m supposed to be able to answer that question.
Nice job, ASE is not easy to achieve. So what happened to kill off the value of your skill? Too many mechanics, maybe too many “off the books mechanics”?
“I left the automotive field. I am still an ase master tech. The money has left the field for mechanics. I started wrenching at 80k a year and quit when my experience was 10 plus years and shops where offering 15 to 20 an hour on flat rate.”
Damn. Popular Mechanics used to run some of the questions from the ASA test. They were vicious. Something like the “The headlights fail on a 1983 Ford Ranger, this could be due to: (1) An intermittent short circuit in the integrated headlight turn-signal switch; (2) A loose ground on the B58 fender stud; or (3) A pressure differential between the headlight (interior) and the ambient air, due to a clog in the vent line.”
Like I’m supposed to be able to answer that question.
Nice job, ASE is not easy to achieve. So what happened to kill off the value of your skill? Too many mechanics, maybe too many “off the books mechanics”?
“I left the automotive field. I am still an ase master tech. The money has left the field for mechanics. I started wrenching at 80k a year and quit when my experience was 10 plus years and shops where offering 15 to 20 an hour on flat rate.”
Damn. Popular Mechanics used to run some of the questions from the ASA test. They were vicious. Something like the “The headlights fail on a 1983 Ford Ranger, this could be due to: (1) An intermittent short circuit in the integrated headlight turn-signal switch; (2) A loose ground on the B58 fender stud; or (3) A pressure differential between the headlight (interior) and the ambient air, due to a clog in the vent line.”
Like I’m supposed to be able to answer that question.
Nice job, ASE is not easy to achieve. So what happened to kill off the value of your skill? Too many mechanics, maybe too many “off the books mechanics”?
“I left the automotive field. I am still an ase master tech. The money has left the field for mechanics. I started wrenching at 80k a year and quit when my experience was 10 plus years and shops where offering 15 to 20 an hour on flat rate.”
Damn. Popular Mechanics used to run some of the questions from the ASA test. They were vicious. Something like the “The headlights fail on a 1983 Ford Ranger, this could be due to: (1) An intermittent short circuit in the integrated headlight turn-signal switch; (2) A loose ground on the B58 fender stud; or (3) A pressure differential between the headlight (interior) and the ambient air, due to a clog in the vent line.”
Like I’m supposed to be able to answer that question.
Nice job, ASE is not easy to achieve. So what happened to kill off the value of your skill? Too many mechanics, maybe too many “off the books mechanics”?
(apologies if posted multiple times - if I get a 503, I try again)
When I got out of high school, I chose the military over college and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. Those four years in the Marine Corps gave me the life experience, discipline and work ethic that so many college students lack. As a result, I have never been out of work in the 30 years that have passed since I got out of the Marines. It seems that all I have to do in an job interview is mention that I was a Marine and the next question is usually when can I start.
This is because hiring managers worth their salt know those with a military background make excellent hires as they will tend to be hard-working, motivated, responsible, and will be leadership material. In fact, most of my post-Marine Corps career has been in management.
Now I don't look down on higher education. In fact, I have taken an enormous amount of college courses (at night) while my employer either paid for them or subsidized them. Therefore, I have never had college debt of any kind yet have been making a six-figure salary for the better part of the past 20 years.
Now for those who are independently wealthy or have trust funds or wealthy parents, go for that liberal arts degree. Some of my favorite college courses were in literature or social studies. But if you need to make a living and don't have a scholarship, trust fund or wealthy parents to send you to college, don't go into debt - join the military instead.
When I started it was a 60/40 split. Shop got 60 I got 40 of the total bill before taxes.
When I left I got 17 an hour flat rate with no commission on parts. There is a book that says how long a job will take so if it says 2 hours you get paid 2 hours.
if your not working your not getting paid. Or better put, if your not working on a customers car, your not getting paid. I was asked many times to do work on the building or grounds when there was no cars to work on.
To make matters worse, the better you got, the more likely you would get the hard jobs with no flat rate in the guide. Drivability problems that can take hours to nail down (it only sputters at 12:01.49 pm on the hill on the way home from church on Sunday) it was not unusual for me to nail down a problem several other shops (including the dealer) could not fix but it’d take the time the other shops where unwilling to invest.
I’d always get the “well.. they have put so much money in to it, we can’t charge them for the full amount of time you spent on it” or “they won’t pay that much for it. we’ll have to discount it to get them to do it.” coupons cut in to my take as they ALWAYS discounted the labor, not the parts.
Shop owners (some I really trust) will tell you the cost of operating has shot up, rent, insurance, utilities, advertising, environmental compliance.. you name it and I suspect this has a lot to do with it.
Lastly I blame the 0% car deals and cheap money (now gone thank god) if a car rang up a 2-3000 dollar quote the owner would just trade it in. During the end of me being a mechanic the average age of the us fleet was 5 years old I think it was. People just would not keep a car, and cash for clunkers killed off a lot of cars I would normally see in the shop for repairs. The average age of the US fleet is now on it’s way back up.
I hear shops are doing better now as people are forced to keep cars longer. However, they are also not repairing things until they have to. People are putting off maintenance because they are broke. However this leads to failure of the car much faster. (no oil changes, worn brakes, that sort of thing)
That’s what my brother did. He went into the Air Force for 20 years in meteorology, went to night school on-n-off, and when he left the service, spent six months finishing off his degree and had a job lined up when he graduated.
Got lots of transfer credits from his on-the-job experience using the same equipment (sometimes better) than the civilian market.
My brother graduated HS 1973, entered the AF for four years, where he got some good training working with electronics. When Reagan fired air traffic controllers, he was able to get his foot in the door and thus began about a 30 year career as an ATC. Retired 1.5 years ago at 55. Has had a wonderful career, made great money, provided a wonderful living for his family. Put both kids through college. Point being, you don’t always have to have a college degree to make it financially in this country, in this life. I’ve also done quite well, my husband and me both, with associates degrees. We had good schooling back then; it paid off in tremendous dividends. Sad to say, it’s probably not the case for most young, average students/adults these days. Times were different, things change.
People attain degrees for all sorts of reasons, and money is not necessarily the primary reason.
Thank you. The kid should go into it understanding the costs and the potential remuneration. After that, it's his decision. College is not necessarily a vocational school.
Wow, and I know that the flat rate numbers are not easy to beat. My kid’s dealing with a snapped bolt on the bell housing, which we got out, just to find stripped threads in the engine. So now we tap it out. I’m sure there’s no allowance for that in the flat-rate book.
Yea, it certainly does sound crappy, I’m glad I do my own work, as it seems that they’re driving everyone with half a brain (i.e., your type) out of that profession.
I was pretty good at beating the book. Broken/stripped bolts are suppose to be charged extra for but it falls under ‘we can’t get them to pay for that!’ so it is very..very.. rare that a service writer would even try..
So.. ya.. a Mechanic would likely deal with that for free.
Drove me right out of it in to the tech sector. few hundred bucks worth of tools and 40-75 an hour :)
Nice, good job.
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