I’m not an abortion supporter but I wonder how we’d react if an atheist came into a church and started passing out atheist literature. Would the church members not have the right to remove him from the property? Someone explain to me how this is any different.
There’s no difference. Both are trespassing and should be treated accordingly if the owners are so inclined.
A church is a little different from a medical office lobby. If she had gone back and disrupted procedures, that would be a better analogy... but she did not. Just so, an atheist handing out literature during a church service is a provocation far beyond what this woman did. Besides, most church-goers are like this woman and would be open to sharing their faith with the atheist. This conversation isn't a two way street.
In NC, we can't even pray on the side of the street with the abortion clinic. I sincerely doubt this prohibition applies to an atheist who wanted to pass out anti-Christian literature in front of a church.
>> Someone explain to me how this is any different.
I don’t know where *you* worship, but in *my* congregation they don’t sign in those in the lobby and then take them back behind the altar rail and kill their babies.
I’d respectfully submit *that* as a difference.
Well...let’s see...one involves murder and the other doesn’t. I hope that clarifies things a bit.
An interesting point and one worth considering. We naturally sympathize with this women because we agree with her views, but the law has to enforced neutrally. If it's illegal for someone to walk into her church and pass out pro abortion literature, then it's just as illegal for her to walk into an abortion clinic and solicit for pro-life counseling services.
I think where the Judge got it wrong was the tone. He should have calmly explained the arguments you and me just made. Then told her she must stay away from the Clinic. Then when she refused, he should have said that although he admired her convictions and regretted having to do it, he would have to send her to jail, just as he would do to someone doing the same thing in her church that refused to stay away.
“I’m not an abortion supporter but I wonder how we’d react if an atheist came into a church and started passing out atheist literature. Would the church members not have the right to remove him from the property? Someone explain to me how this is any different.”
Just the fact that they are murdering innocent babies is all.
In a better world, the atheist would be beaten by the parishioners and sent to prison by the judge and the doctors, staff and women having abortions would be convicted of capital murder.
“I’m not an abortion supporter but I wonder how we’d react if an atheist came into a church and started passing out atheist literature. Would the church members not have the right to remove him from the property? Someone explain to me how this is any different.”
I go to an ELCA church, so you never quite know, but I suspect knowing a good many of the members there that he’d be invited to fellowship afterward.
No more zealous convert than an atheist.
I’d welcome an atheist in our church passing out literature. It would give Christians an opportunity to show them Christian charity. Divine appointments are a good thing.
As long as he doesn’t interrupt the service or Sunday school, he’s fine.
Well, an atheist is welcome in my church. If he wants to pass out atheist literature I’ll be happy to read it and talk with him about it afterward. Your analogy doesn’t seem to work very well.
If we agree that we are dealing with the willful killing of defenseless, innocent life, then we can move to an apt analogy of the situation. If not, then I guess you would need to make the case that abortion is NOT the willful killing of defenseless, innocent life..
The analogy:
You watch a mother, with a knife to her young daughter's throat, go into a doctor's office. The doctor has told you previously that you are not welcome in his office. The young girl is in imminent danger, so you rush into the office to help save the young girl.
Later, after rescuing the girl, you take her to your church to get her some counseling and start the process of getting her to a good home...and her mother comes into the church foyer, with the knife, looking for her daughter.
Obviously, we are morally obliged to protect the daughter in both cases, and such obligation supersedes our moral obligation to respect the wishes of the doctor (even if he is OK with, or intends to help, the mother killing her daughter in his office). An abortionist is SEEKING innocent babies to kill when he/she promotes his/her services.
As someone else has pointed out, the pro-lifer in abortion clinic/atheist in church is really not a analogy - but the pro-lifer in abortion clinic/abortionist in church is. That is why I have the mother coming into the church looking for her daughter. (As also stated, the atheist would likely be invited into a discussion of his/her beliefs.)
So, on the face of it, none of us have the right to go onto private property where we are not welcome - UNLESS a greater moral imperative demands we do so. It is easier to see this when the law is morally correct, as it is in the case of the mother ready to kill her young daughter. Any accusation of trespass by the doctor would be laughed out of court. It is more difficult to see when the law allows, even supports, an immoral act, as the law does abortion.
Also - think of this: At a certain point in our history, men “owned” slaves. The law said it was illegal to assist a slave (the “property” of another man) to escape. It was also illegal to “help” another man's horse “escape” the barn. Would one have been a hypocrite in those days to assist a slave in his escape and demand prosecution of a horsethief?
>> I’m not an abortion supporter but I wonder how we’d react if an atheist came into a church and started passing out atheist literature
Good grief, we don’t slaughter nascent life in the Church.
Need more information ... in that hypothetical church, were they performing human sacrifice on the altar?
In the Bible, in "Acts," you'll find many accounts of Apostles preaching in defiance of the "law."
God called on them to preach His Gospel, even though the authorities rejected it. They were beaten, imprisoned and murdered for their stand with Him. You don't strike me as one who would suffer for God; rather you would compromise with evil.
The legality of an action does not make it right, nor acceptable to God. Consider the actions of the NAZIs. Technically, their actions were "legal." Some churches chose to "go along" with the law. Do you think this was acceptable to our Lord?
If an atheist came into my Church, I'd consider that an incredible opportunity to witness for Jesus, the King of kings and the Lord of lords. I serve him rather than your temporal masters.