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How Panic Doomed an Airliner
jeffwise.net ^
| December 7, 2011
| Jeff Wise
Posted on 03/07/2012 11:45:08 AM PST by BenLurkin
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1
posted on
03/07/2012 11:45:13 AM PST
by
BenLurkin
To: BenLurkin
2
posted on
03/07/2012 11:48:53 AM PST
by
BlueLancer
(KOMEN PINK: The color of the water in the basin after Pilate finished washing his hands)
To: BenLurkin
Turns out that pilots of these modern airliners are very good managers, and not very good pilots. As the process becomes more and more about managing the machines as they do the flying, the “stick and rudder” instincts of the pilots becomes less and less important... until it becomes suddenly very, very important.
3
posted on
03/07/2012 11:53:37 AM PST
by
Haiku Guy
("The problem with Internet Quotes is that you never know if they are real" -- Abraham Lincoln)
To: BenLurkin
I sez...In experinced pilots not dealing correctly(overcompensating) for a stall......
For years our all pilots had loads military training,train train train...these kids now a days have zero and freak out and over compensate for all kids of crap
4
posted on
03/07/2012 11:54:41 AM PST
by
CGASMIA68
To: BenLurkin
5
posted on
03/07/2012 11:54:48 AM PST
by
texas booster
(Join FreeRepublic's Folding@Home team (Team # 36120) Cure Alzheimer's!)
To: BenLurkin
Wow, this is something I’ve wanted to hear about. When they say “earlier THIS YEAR”, do they mean this young calendar year? Incredible.
So sad. Waiting for the “Seconds from Disaster” episode.
6
posted on
03/07/2012 11:58:16 AM PST
by
the OlLine Rebel
(Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
To: the OlLine Rebel
Seconds from Disaster
I like that show.
7
posted on
03/07/2012 12:05:20 PM PST
by
BenLurkin
(This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
To: BenLurkin
Wow. I read the full Popular Mechanics article. Anyone who’s played Microsoft Flight simulator knows about stall.
I wonder if it is brain freeze or simply over reliance on technology. Per article: “The flight control computer under normal law will not allow an aircraft to stall, aviation experts say”
8
posted on
03/07/2012 12:08:14 PM PST
by
Barney Gumble
(A liberal is someone too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel - Robert Frost)
To: BenLurkin
The proper thing for Bonin to have done would have been to keep the plane flying level...no, the proper thing to do would have been to wake the senior pilot form his nap, now that they found they had encountered a "large tropical storm" - but then I'm not a pilot, so what do I know?....
To: the OlLine Rebel
10
posted on
03/07/2012 12:12:28 PM PST
by
Bubba Ho-Tep
("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
To: BenLurkin
Airbus features asynchronous controls Even worse, it averages the two inputs, which is a terrible design. One pilot was pushing forward, while the other full back, so the airplane's computer did neither up nor down. Who designs an airplane to operate by democracy? A chain of mistakes combined to cause this accident but bad socialist engineering played a large part.
11
posted on
03/07/2012 12:15:59 PM PST
by
Reeses
To: Reeses
"Who designs an airplane to operate by democracy?"
Je ne sais pas!
12
posted on
03/07/2012 12:24:34 PM PST
by
BenLurkin
(This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
To: Barney Gumble
Remember the Gimli Glider?..whoever would have thunk that a modern airliner could RUN OUT OF FUEL 35,000 feet in the air...
13
posted on
03/07/2012 12:36:14 PM PST
by
ken5050
(The ONLY reason to support Mitt: The Mormon Tabernacle Choir will appear at the WH each Christmas)
To: BenLurkin
That wonderful GEE-WIZZ glass instrument panel is what killed those folks. That and not training and making the young pilots to fly the airplane without all the electronics.
To be certified, the aircraft must be able to fly and land safely after a total electrical failure. It can be done, but not if you neglect this configuration in training the pilots.
14
posted on
03/07/2012 12:43:48 PM PST
by
wrench
To: SirKit
Air France accident ping!
15
posted on
03/07/2012 12:50:33 PM PST
by
SuziQ
To: Reeses
Even worse, it averages the two inputs, which is a terrible design. One pilot was pushing forward, while the other full back, so the airplane's computer did neither up nor down. Who designs an airplane to operate by democracy? A chain of mistakes combined to cause this accident but bad socialist engineering played a large part.
Ok, genius, how does 'conservative engineering' handle control inputs? Ignore the copilot? What if the pilot passes out and slumps over the wheel? There is a lot of 'democracy' in a redundant system. You don't want any single failure to bring down the plane. If you don't know how these things are designed then refrain from insulting engineers you have never met.
16
posted on
03/07/2012 2:16:39 PM PST
by
TalonDJ
To: BenLurkin
In the case of Air France 447, it appears that Bonin, in his panic, completely forgot one of the most basic tenets of flight training: when at risk of a stall, never pull back on the controls. Instead, he held back the controls, in a kind of panicked death-grip, all the way down to the ocean. Ironically, if he had simply taken his hands away, the plane would have regained speed and started flying again.In IMC, if the air-speed sensors voter was erroneously indicating a high A/S, then the pilot would (properly) be trying to reduce speed to avoid exceeding the NTE speed, which is much more dangerous than a high-altitude stall. Once you exceed NTE the plane will start to lose a wing or elevators and it is doomed. A high-altitude stall can be recovered from, but there is no recovery from a lost wing or tail.
The triply-redundant fly-by-wire flight control system on the Airbus is unable to handle two erroneous data streams (e.g., two bad sensors) and instruments are then lying to him.
17
posted on
03/07/2012 2:23:26 PM PST
by
expat2
To: Haiku Guy
Humans are very good at handling complex situations, but are very poor at monitoring systems over long periods. Unfortunately, the engineers have tried to use computers to handle complex situations and use humans to monitor the computers, the reverse.
18
posted on
03/07/2012 2:26:04 PM PST
by
expat2
To: wrench
No, the glass cockpit didn't kill them - it was the bad air-speed sensors that did it. And the Airbus cannot be flown without the electronics -- there are no steel cables between the controls and the flying surfaces, everything is electronics with electrical signal from the controls to the computers and electrical signal to the control-surface electrical actuators.
19
posted on
03/07/2012 2:33:19 PM PST
by
expat2
To: ken5050
Well there you can blame the metric system. (always a good scapegoat)
20
posted on
03/07/2012 2:49:18 PM PST
by
Barney Gumble
(A liberal is someone too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel - Robert Frost)
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