Posted on 11/29/2011 10:58:46 PM PST by Kevmo
Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
Av: Mats Lewan
Publicerad igår, 10:13 4 kommentarer
Tomorrow on Wednesday the Greek company Defkalion will present products similar to Andrea Rossi’s 'E-cat', claiming that the technology is developed in-house. But Defkalion earlier told Ny Teknik that it has 'the formula of Rossi' .
“Let’s say I have the formula of Rossi, but I’m not saying it officially. My scientists found a way to make it. They need three months.”
That is what Alexandros Xanthoulis, representative of Defkalion Green Technology’s owners, told Ny Teknik in a telephone conversation on August 5, 2011 .
“I know what he’s got in the reactor, I know everything. It was a spectroscopy made by the University of Siena. (...) They tried his reactor without him understanding what they did,” he continued .
Xanthoulis contacted Ny Teknik the day after Rossi unilaterally terminated his agreement with Defkalion. Among other things, the agreement gave Defkalion exclusive rights in Greece and the Balkans for production and distribution of the “E-cat” – Rossi’s invention that might produce heat through a hitherto unknown form of nuclear reaction .
At a press conference in June 2011 Defkalion presented sketches on a range of products – “Hyperion” – built around Rossi’s technology, with control and regulation systems, remote monitoring, heat exchangers and other peripherals developed by Defkalion .
When Rossi terminated the agreement in August, he stressed that no knowledge of the core technology had been transferred to Defkalion. The Hyperion products thus seemed to have no future .
During the telephone conversation with Ny Teknik, Xanthoulis expressed considerable uncertainty about Rossi’s intentions. However, he made clear that he was not going to use the knowledge of Rossi’s reactor and that he wanted "fair play" .
He also explained that his researchers had found ways to improve the technology. According to Xanthoulis, Rossi could not run the reaction more than 24 hours, and when Defkalion required a 48 hour test it supposedly led to a conflict with Rossi .
“It’s very simple but they didn’t think about it. (...) We solved the problem. Because the problem is that he cannot spread the reaction all over the pipe, and all the heating is concentrated in the middle”, Xanthoulis told Ny Teknik .
A few days after the phone conversation, Defkalion announced that it continued the project, despite the breach of contract. Defkalion has also continued to offer licenses for the production of Hyperion products to EUR 40.5 million per factory .
Tomorrow on Wednesday November 30th, Defkalion has planned a presentation of its products, and has announced that the the technology will be certified and tested by an independent party .
In contrast to Xanthoulis’ information about Defkalion’s possessing ' the formula of Rossi', the company now states that its technology is developed in-house and that it is not based on Rossi’s technology .
Among other things, Defkalion posted in a forum on its website: “E-cats (or energy catalyzers) are E-cats and Hyperions are Hyperions. We can assure you that they are not the same ‘thing’ with just different names.”
On Ny Teknik's request we received the following comment to the conversation in August:
"So much has changed since August, many minor events and issues have taken place making it hard to tie the story together with a few words of Alex back then. Defkalion is working on exothermic reactions between Nickel and Hydrogen. Our products have completely different technologies (encompassing electronics, engineering, materials) than from Rossi, even [if] we have understood where Rossi has made his mistakes."
Ny Teknik also asked for a comment from Rossi who declined, stating that he would never have anything to do with Defkalion again, and that what the company said or did could only be a matter for his lawyers, in the case that would be necessary .
Since the breach of contract in August, Rossi has continued to work on his technology and has made a number of semi-public demonstrations to some criticism of Defkalion which stated that Rossi used some technology developed by the Greek company .
On October 28 a test of a heating plant with a nominal thermal power of one megawatt, consisting of about one hundred E-cat modules, was performed. The test was made by an anonymous customer, according to Rossi a military organization, which officially approved the plant and then bought it .
Thereafter, the same customer has, still according to Rossi, placed an order for a further twelve similar plants which now supposedly are under construction. And yesterday Rossi announced that a heat plant had been sold to a customer who will let "a qualified public" visit it .
Rossi has said he is now taking pre-orders for a consumer version of the E-cat at 10 kilowatts of thermal power, stating that when he reaches 10,000 pre-orders, the interested parties will be offered to accept or decline to purchase the product for 400 Euros per kilowatt nominal thermal output, which would set the prize for a model of 10 kilowatts to 4,000 Euros .
Many have called for an independent test of the E-cat, but Rossi has rejected this and said that he now only has time for customers. According to Rossi, another reason is avoiding that further details of the invention reach his competitors, as it is not yet patented .
In addition to Defkalion, at least a dozen researchers worldwide are actively working with phenomena related to the concept of cold fusion or Low Energy Nuclear Reactions, LENR. However, no one has so far come close to the output power levels Rossi seems to have reached .
Most notable is perhaps Rossi’s compatriot Prof. Francesco Piantelli who previously conducted research with Rossi’s scientific adviser Prof. Sergio Focardi. Among other researchers often mentioned are Americans Michael McKubre, George Miley, Peter Hagelstein, Brian Ahern and Italian Francesco Celani who attended Rossi’s first public trial in January 2011 .
According to reliable sources to Ny Teknik, there are stakeholders who have tried to make commercial agreements with Rossi, and who are now actively seeking opportunities to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in this area .
The concept of cold fusion has generally been regarded as impossibility by the scientific community since the debate following a press conference on 23 March 1989 when researchers Fleischmann and Pons presented their results .
Despite this the phenomenon has since then been confirmed in hundreds of published scientific papers .
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READ MORE: Our complete coverage on Rossi's E-cat can be found here .
FAKTA Excerpt of Ny Teknik’s conversation with Alexandros Xanthoulis August 5
"Let’s say I have the formula of Rossi, but I’m not saying it officially. My scientists found a way to make it. They need three months, but I’m not going to play game behind Rossi. I’m not a cheater. We started together and if he has to be paid, he will. But his problem is scientifically solved by us .
Because we believe that his reactor cannot operate more than 24 hours .
When we requested 48 it was a problem. But my scientists found out the problems. I cannot reveal it right now. But the problem can be fixed by us. It’s very simple but they didn’t think about it. The same way more than a year ago when Rossi had never thought that his invention could create electricity. He had never thought about it until we told him."
(...)
"First of all, the first problem was with 48 hours, that’s for sure. And he had a huge fight with one of my scientists, Mr Hadjichristos, you’ve heard of him most probably, Yiannis, because we were insisting on 48 hours. But we know the problem; we didn’t tell him of course, we know the problem .
I know what he’s got in the reactor, I know everything. It was a spectroscopy (Greek: ‘fasmatoscopy’) made by the university of Siena. It was an equipment made by the University of Siena. It understands everything that’s inside the reactor. So we know the components."
Ny Teknik: Who did that?
"The University of Siena .
They tried his reactor without him understanding what they did. They checked it and we know what’s in the reactor .
So it’s a matter of two or three months that my scientists can reproduce that, but I’m not going to try it. I’m playing a fair game .
We solved the problem. The problems he’s got, we solved them. Because the problem is that he cannot spread the reaction all over the pipe, and all the heating is concentrated in the middle. So we found the solution."
(This quote is slightly adjusted for clarity through advice from Defkalion) .
FAKTA The E-cat
The 'energy catalyzer' is loaded with nickel powder and a number of secret catalysts and is pressurized with hydrogen gas. Excess heat is possibly produced via an unknown nuclear reaction, involving nickel and hydrogen .
Several semipublic tests have been made to demonstrate the release of net energy but no independent tests have yet been done .
On October 28, 2011, a heat plant composed by 107 Ecat modules was tested by an anonymous customer. In a report the customer claimed a released net power of 479 kW in self sustained mode .
- - - -
Whether this "legitimizes" Rossi is open to debate.
I think it delegitimizes Gentile, but you know me, moonboy seagull and all that.
Sometimes the body shop "hires in help" from other corporations ~ and you find out there's only one guy there ~ and he's incorporated. I think there's some of that in this arrangement.
LTI currently has about 14 "employees" and the contract is for $94 million per year. That's an awful lot of money per head. On the other hand they might be involved in moving hundreds of "executives" or "experts" in and out of various jobs or projects at DOE over the course of a year.
Rossi also has other business interests in Italy. They, in turn have other business interests in the United States. Some of them look like marketing ventures; others involve simple sales, and I have no idea where the marketing groups are for his import/export deals.
I'd really like to know what Rossi meant by mortgaging his house. if he has enough money to be involved in as much stuff as he seems to be that "house" must mean something more like "house of Rossi"!
See why we need someone fluent in Italian on top of this ~ Anybody seen Amanda Knox lately?
On the other hand, the charge is that Rossi was accused of felonies and went to prison in Italy.
Then he somehow ended up in the United States ~ and only some of those "questionable sources" say he came here as an immigrant. Some say he simply came here!
So, he's here and ICE hasn't picked him up. He came here "way back when" with ease, and ICE didn't get him, and before that INS didn't lay a glove on him. He comes and goes at will.
No one seems to care YET there are as many references to him being a convicted felon as there are to him coming and going.
This leads to a logical problem ~ if he's just a visitor, he's still a felon and has to climb through his butt every time to get a visa. If he's an immigrant, we don't offer immigration to convicted felons. If he's got some sort of Presidential permanent pass, there'd be an answer eh!
At the same time he was fully exonerated of all charges in Italy ~ but that was AFTER he'd emigrated here (according to those sources) so is he perhaps a political refugee? He certainly runs with a heady crowd who could arrange that. But then, why would he return to visit Italy before he was exonerated?
The Mob could certainly get him in and out of Italy, but he's a fairly public guy. I doubt they're involved.
The conclusion is that Rossi really does have a pass.
If he does not have a pass how is it that he travels back and forth.
Then, what happened to all the property Italy confiscated? Did they give it back?
Moonman62, you’re slipping. I’ve been pointing out for WEEKS that Gentile and his crowd may not be as kosher as you’d want to believe ~ and once you realize that, Rossi looks to be only a small cog in a big wheel.
Regarding Jimmy Carter and the "permanent pass" there are numerous references on the netSo I guess you don't have a credible source for that rumor. I've found all sorts of wonderful stuff about Rossi, but when I track it down, it turns out to be Rossi who's making the claims, and Rossi's shills (like Sterling Allan) spreading them around.
At the same time he was fully exonerated of all charges in ItalyNot according to the newspaper articles I've read.
Everyone talks about the toxic waste dumping that prompted one of Rossi's convictions, and was apparently reversed later.
However, I haven't read anything about him being acquitted on the other, unrelated convictions: fraud related to building a factory in southern Italy, fraud related to his gold shipping business that didn't actually ship any gold or the fraud conviction related to gutting a company on the verge of bankruptcy. That last one was interesting in that the paper reported that Rossi had been a fugitive in the United States for a year.
I know that Rossi and his shills have been spreading lots of statements that appear to be less than truthful, so I'm not accepting anything they say as the truth unless I can corroborate it from some other source.
Now, regarding the pass, I didn't say any of the references were of the sort where you could use them to build the case that Rossi is a con. Obviously they are friendly. At the same time none of the anti-Rossi boards tell us what happened on appeal ~ WHICH as we learned recently in the Amanda Knox case appears to be a mandatory thing!
I did find ONE reference where the writer said "and he spent 8 years in prison" ~ but couldn't find another one. He, himself, is quoted as saying something had an 8 year sentence but we need a hard reference (from an independent source) to tell us if he actually served the sentence. Let's apply the same standard to that quote as you want to apply to the others.
If you are old enough you'll remember back in the beginning of EPA SuperFundEnforcement they charged a troop of Boy Scouts with being responsible for a Super Fund Site.
Used to be they used a tag team out standard where the last person or group to own, walk on, look at or ausfahrt in the direction of a Super Fund site could be sued to clean it up! EPA made some lifelong enemies with that sort of thing (I still hate their guts, and if one of them were crossing on a red and I had the green, well it'd be a real battle to put on the brakes) ~ although that's not the point here, I doubt the Italian government was any more advanced in its thinking about cleaning up Hazmat than our government was. Most of these guys swap ideas as well as legal standards of evidence.
If you look closely at the environmental charges against Rossi you find that he was considered part of a group of 5 ~ the others are even named ~ so if one of them committed anything egregious ALL of them got charged with it.
I believe Rossi says his involvement was misrepresented by the press and when we look at the record he was cleared on all counts! The same thing happened to the Boy Scout troop in the more famous American case. The James Bovard book that goes into this deeper is reviewed at: http://www.fff.org/freedom/0399d.asp
No doubt the Italians followed the leader!
All I can say is he's darned lucky he was not raising bunny rabbits ~ you get EPA and USDA on your tail.
One more item ~ convicted felons have a difficult time getting an immigration visa ~ so how did he immigrate?
According to the Army document, Rossi was doing his work in early 2000, then after his factory burned down, he returned to Italy to continue his work there.
According to THIS article, Rossi was arrested just before 6/1/2000 (the date of the article). The article states that he had been a fugitive in the U.S. for a year, and that he had a return ticket for 6/5/2000. So it may be that his "plans to continue his work in Italy" were forced on him by the Italian police.
The article also mentions that this arrest was for "gutting" a company as it was going into bankruptcy, transferring all the assets out of the country.
The article also mentions that Rossi's conviction for dumping toxic waste had already been overturned at this point, so this arrest was a separate issue.
THIS article, from 10/20/2000, states that Rossi was sentenced for eight years for bankruptcy fraud.
THIS article, from 11/24/2004, states that Rossi was acquitted for toxic waste dumping charges. It specifically mentions that he was still awaiting appeal on his 2000 conviction for bankruptcy fraud.
So, based on everything I was able to dig up, there is no sign of Rossi being acquitted on that last, 8-year conviction.
Obviously a problem digging into Italian judicial records ~ I didn’t have any luck either. Bet Amanda could help us with this. Maybe someone should approach her about joining FR. She had a lot of friends here.
Rossi has shown he is not legitimate in the past and all this corporate shuffling, and the fact that he is operating a corporate entity out of a 5th floor apartment in Miami Beach, says he is not legitimate now. I’ve been in business for decades and have worked with hundreds of companies...none out of an apartment, especially not one claiming to be a mutlimillion dollar business.
That is a bit different, “not really know” versus “could be an exaggeration”.
So let’s have round & round of back & forth nonsense over such a small nit, shall we?
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