Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”

Ny Teknik ^ | Nov 29 2011 | Mats Lewan

[Kevmo]

Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
Av: Mats Lewan
Publicerad igår, 10:13 4 kommentarer

Tomorrow on Wednesday the Greek company Defkalion will present products similar to Andrea Rossi’s 'E-cat', claiming that the technology is developed in-house. But Defkalion earlier told Ny Teknik that it has 'the formula of Rossi' .


“Let’s say I have the formula of Rossi, but I’m not saying it officially. My scientists found a way to make it. They need three months.”
That is what Alexandros Xanthoulis, representative of Defkalion Green Technology’s owners, told Ny Teknik in a telephone conversation on August 5, 2011 .

“I know what he’s got in the reactor, I know everything. It was a spectroscopy made by the University of Siena. (...) They tried his reactor without him understanding what they did,” he continued .

Xanthoulis contacted Ny Teknik the day after Rossi unilaterally terminated his agreement with Defkalion. Among other things, the agreement gave Defkalion exclusive rights in Greece and the Balkans for production and distribution of the “E-cat” – Rossi’s invention that might produce heat through a hitherto unknown form of nuclear reaction .

At a press conference in June 2011 Defkalion presented sketches on a range of products – “Hyperion” – built around Rossi’s technology, with control and regulation systems, remote monitoring, heat exchangers and other peripherals developed by Defkalion .

When Rossi terminated the agreement in August, he stressed that no knowledge of the core technology had been transferred to Defkalion. The Hyperion products thus seemed to have no future .

During the telephone conversation with Ny Teknik, Xanthoulis expressed considerable uncertainty about Rossi’s intentions. However, he made clear that he was not going to use the knowledge of Rossi’s reactor and that he wanted "fair play" .

He also explained that his researchers had found ways to improve the technology. According to Xanthoulis, Rossi could not run the reaction more than 24 hours, and when Defkalion required a 48 hour test it supposedly led to a conflict with Rossi .

“It’s very simple but they didn’t think about it. (...) We solved the problem. Because the problem is that he cannot spread the reaction all over the pipe, and all the heating is concentrated in the middle”, Xanthoulis told Ny Teknik .

A few days after the phone conversation, Defkalion announced that it continued the project, despite the breach of contract. Defkalion has also continued to offer licenses for the production of Hyperion products to EUR 40.5 million per factory .

Tomorrow on Wednesday November 30th, Defkalion has planned a presentation of its products, and has announced that the the technology will be certified and tested by an independent party .

In contrast to Xanthoulis’ information about Defkalion’s possessing ' the formula of Rossi', the company now states that its technology is developed in-house and that it is not based on Rossi’s technology .

Among other things, Defkalion posted in a forum on its website: “E-cats (or energy catalyzers) are E-cats and Hyperions are Hyperions. We can assure you that they are not the same ‘thing’ with just different names.”
On Ny Teknik's request we received the following comment to the conversation in August:
"So much has changed since August, many minor events and issues have taken place making it hard to tie the story together with a few words of Alex back then. Defkalion is working on exothermic reactions between Nickel and Hydrogen. Our products have completely different technologies (encompassing electronics, engineering, materials) than from Rossi, even [if] we have understood where Rossi has made his mistakes."
Ny Teknik also asked for a comment from Rossi who declined, stating that he would never have anything to do with Defkalion again, and that what the company said or did could only be a matter for his lawyers, in the case that would be necessary .

Since the breach of contract in August, Rossi has continued to work on his technology and has made a number of semi-public demonstrations to some criticism of Defkalion which stated that Rossi used some technology developed by the Greek company .

On October 28 a test of a heating plant with a nominal thermal power of one megawatt, consisting of about one hundred E-cat modules, was performed. The test was made by an anonymous customer, according to Rossi a military organization, which officially approved the plant and then bought it .

Thereafter, the same customer has, still according to Rossi, placed an order for a further twelve similar plants which now supposedly are under construction. And yesterday Rossi announced that a heat plant had been sold to a customer who will let "a qualified public" visit it .

Rossi has said he is now taking pre-orders for a consumer version of the E-cat at 10 kilowatts of thermal power, stating that when he reaches 10,000 pre-orders, the interested parties will be offered to accept or decline to purchase the product for 400 Euros per kilowatt nominal thermal output, which would set the prize for a model of 10 kilowatts to 4,000 Euros .

Many have called for an independent test of the E-cat, but Rossi has rejected this and said that he now only has time for customers. According to Rossi, another reason is avoiding that further details of the invention reach his competitors, as it is not yet patented .

In addition to Defkalion, at least a dozen researchers worldwide are actively working with phenomena related to the concept of cold fusion or Low Energy Nuclear Reactions, LENR. However, no one has so far come close to the output power levels Rossi seems to have reached .

Most notable is perhaps Rossi’s compatriot Prof. Francesco Piantelli who previously conducted research with Rossi’s scientific adviser Prof. Sergio Focardi. Among other researchers often mentioned are Americans Michael McKubre, George Miley, Peter Hagelstein, Brian Ahern and Italian Francesco Celani who attended Rossi’s first public trial in January 2011 .

According to reliable sources to Ny Teknik, there are stakeholders who have tried to make commercial agreements with Rossi, and who are now actively seeking opportunities to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in this area .

The concept of cold fusion has generally been regarded as impossibility by the scientific community since the debate following a press conference on 23 March 1989 when researchers Fleischmann and Pons presented their results .

Despite this the phenomenon has since then been confirmed in hundreds of published scientific papers .

- - - -
READ MORE: Our complete coverage on Rossi's E-cat can be found here .

FAKTA Excerpt of Ny Teknik’s conversation with Alexandros Xanthoulis August 5
"Let’s say I have the formula of Rossi, but I’m not saying it officially. My scientists found a way to make it. They need three months, but I’m not going to play game behind Rossi. I’m not a cheater. We started together and if he has to be paid, he will. But his problem is scientifically solved by us .

Because we believe that his reactor cannot operate more than 24 hours .

When we requested 48 it was a problem. But my scientists found out the problems. I cannot reveal it right now. But the problem can be fixed by us. It’s very simple but they didn’t think about it. The same way more than a year ago when Rossi had never thought that his invention could create electricity. He had never thought about it until we told him."
(...)
"First of all, the first problem was with 48 hours, that’s for sure. And he had a huge fight with one of my scientists, Mr Hadjichristos, you’ve heard of him most probably, Yiannis, because we were insisting on 48 hours. But we know the problem; we didn’t tell him of course, we know the problem .

I know what he’s got in the reactor, I know everything. It was a spectroscopy (Greek: ‘fasmatoscopy’) made by the university of Siena. It was an equipment made by the University of Siena. It understands everything that’s inside the reactor. So we know the components."
Ny Teknik: Who did that?
"The University of Siena .

They tried his reactor without him understanding what they did. They checked it and we know what’s in the reactor .

So it’s a matter of two or three months that my scientists can reproduce that, but I’m not going to try it. I’m playing a fair game .

We solved the problem. The problems he’s got, we solved them. Because the problem is that he cannot spread the reaction all over the pipe, and all the heating is concentrated in the middle. So we found the solution."
(This quote is slightly adjusted for clarity through advice from Defkalion) .

FAKTA The E-cat
The 'energy catalyzer' is loaded with nickel powder and a number of secret catalysts and is pressurized with hydrogen gas. Excess heat is possibly produced via an unknown nuclear reaction, involving nickel and hydrogen .

Several semipublic tests have been made to demonstrate the release of net energy but no independent tests have yet been done .

On October 28, 2011, a heat plant composed by 107 Ecat modules was tested by an anonymous customer. In a report the customer claimed a released net power of 479 kW in self sustained mode .

- - - -

[Moonman62]

So why is it that guys like Levi, Stremmenos, Kullander have investigated his claim, knowing full well the possibility of scam, and have said there’s something to it?

Probably because Rossi is paying them, or is giving them a piece of the action. Levi and Stremmenos were listed as personnel of Rossi's company by Sterling Allan.

[Kevmo]

This will be my standard post to moonboy that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. But if it offends you to the point that you get it removed like my prior innocuous citation then I’ll have to come up with some other ‘ignore button’ post.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62

This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.

55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)

[Johnny B.]

***Here’s where you distort an otherwise very sharp argument. Rothwell doesn’t say he doesn’t really know, he just doesn’t have a link.

No, you're wrong. Rothwell says, "It could be an exaggeration."

He does say he doesn't really know.

Go back to twirling your ball bearings and looking for whoever stole your strawberries, with your geometric logic.

[Johnny B.]

So, this “Bob Gentile,” whom doesn’t appear to be related in any way to Andrea Rossi, can tell me about this fictitious corporation you came up with?

I really, really hate to do this, but it looks like muawiyah is right about this.

Back in 2004, LTI-Global was stating on their website that they had business presence in all of the states being discussed: Ohio, New Hampshire and Pennsylvania. LINK

So, unless this specific detail of the scam had been waiting for almost eight years to trick us, Rossi's LTI really was LTI-Global.

LTI-Global is a "real" company, with a long track record and well-known management (including a former Assistant Secretary of Energy). This certainly adds to Rossi's credibility.

Does it make up for all the other questionable details of Rossi and his E-Cat. I don't think so, but this does make it less clear.

[muawiyah]

Also West Virginia (Morgantown ~ there's a major university there and they do a lot of coal related research).

That's referenced in the "Contact Us" board.

[Lx]

http://www.lti-global.com/ certainly looks like a real company, how is it related to Rossi?

[Lx]

If Ampenergo is located in a fifth floor apartment, doesn’t that seem odd for a real company?

[muawiyah]

Leonardo Corporation ~ is on the fifth floor somewhere. Frank Pastirchak is the ONLY guy to look that company up (who is otherwise a member of the organization that searches for company information). He can be found co-located with numerous others at http://www.corporationwiki.com/New-York/Hawthorne/frank-pastirchak/30383534.aspx So, who is Frank and why is he interested in Leonardo Corp?

[CodeToad]

"Leonardo Corporation ~ is on the fifth floor somewhere. Frank Pastirchak is the ONLY guy to look that company up"

Other than codetoad that posted the info on this FR thread at post #54.

[Lx]

Isn't this Rossi's Leonardo? Rossi's Leonardo

Report on Rossi starting Leonardo in 1997

From above website:Leonardo Corp. and Rossi as president of the corporation.

Whackjob Sterling Allen's Leonardo Corp website that Rossi wanted taken down: Leonardo site Rossi wanted removed

Now, let's ask a simple question:

If this is Rossi's Leonardo corp:http://www.lti-global.com, Why is there never any link to it? I would think it would add credibility to Rossi since lti-global has been around for a while.

Is this yet another case where Rossi names his company after an existing real company?

What do you know, Sterling Allen links to this company for Leonardo:http://leonardocorp1996.com/ from his site at: http://pesn.com/2011/05/17/9501827_Ampenergo_Amps_Up_Rossis_Energy_Catalyzer_in_America/

This raises more questions than it answers.

[Lx]

That's good info, would you mind reposting it on this thread? Pretty much seals the deal.

What I don't get is this guy, Bob Gentile is supposedly investing in ampenrgo?

[muawiyah]

Well doggone; you don't suppose we've penetrated Code Toad's ID? Hmm.

Don't tell me you pay for that stuff?

[muawiyah]

Mary looks like she's still doing escort work.

You sure that's a legitimate story and site?

[Johnny B.]

Here's my understanding of the mess:

There is a legitimate company called "Leonardo Technologies Inc." (aka "LTI-Global"), that has been around over a decade, and has Robert Gentile, a former Associate Secretary of Energy under Bush I. Their old website (circa 2004) listed both New Hampshire and Pennsylvania as business locations, in addition to their primary address in Ohio.

So, when Rossi shows up on the Army report as "Leonardo Technologies Inc.", in Pennsylvania, I'm assuming it's the same one. (This was the point I wasn't able to connect prior to now.)

It has been claimed that Rossi founded this company, and later sold it to fund his E-Cat development. I have no facts to support or contradict this.

Rossi's current company is "Leonardo Corporation", based in New Hampshire and with a registered location in an apartment building in Florida. This company has supposedly been selling bio-diesel generators, but I haven't been able to find any evidence that anyone has actually ever bought one.

AmpEnergo is a new company, set up to distribute E-Cats in the Americas. The founders include Karl Norwood and Robert Gentile.

Karl Norwood owns the building that houses the shared office of his Real Estate company, Rossi's new company ("Leonardo Corporation") and AmpEnergo.

So, it appears that Rossi was involved with the Ohio "LTI-Global" when he did his thermoelectric project. That would indicate a connection to Robert Gentile at that time.

The current connection is Robert Gentile (and one other person) from LTI-Global being listed as founding members of AmpEnergo.

This shows that a presumably respectable businessman and former government official (Gentile) has a long-term relationship with Rossi.

Whether this "legitimizes" Rossi is open to debate.

[Lx]

John has a long mustache.

[muawiyah]

There are others in the cluster around Gentile who seem to move in and out of LTI, Parsons and DOE over time.

That's not terribly unusual ~ there are these companies called "body-shops" who provide you with temporary executive level personnel with special training, knowledge or experience.

I've worked with such people in the past ~ sometimes I've been the COTR, or project manager, or just a staffer.

To me the unusual relationship here is that of Rossi and his Green Card issued to him by Jimmy Carter, and the ability of some of the LTI affiliated personnel to move in and out of DOE!

There are legal limitations involved so that you don't have a guy go to a government agency, double deal a contract to his old company, and then go back and reap the benefits as a manger in charge of spending that money. These guys seem to not be bothered by those limits.

With that sort of thing going on around him it just seems wrong to try to ID Rossi as the king-pin.

[Johnny B.]

To me the unusual relationship here is that of Rossi and his Green Card issued to him by Jimmy Carter

Do you have a credible source for this statement?

There are others in the cluster around Gentile who seem to move in and out of LTI, Parsons and DOE over time.

Understood. My only point with the AmpEnergo/Norwood/Gentile is how they all seem to be the same group, and not the independent companies that the press releases would have us believe. I've read many comments on how the "fact" that AmpEnergo would do a deal with Rossi "proves" that Rossi is legitimate, when in fact it really doesn't.

Just for completeness, Robert Gentile apparently wasn't a very good Associate Secretary of Energy, since he was fired after 18 months. LINK

With that sort of thing going on around him it just seems wrong to try to ID Rossi as the king-pin.

OK, perhaps he's the frontman for a group. It's also possible that he is legit and really does have the breakthrough of the century. But his behavior seems much more consistent with those of a con man.

[CodeToad]

Sure, be happy to:

LEONARDO CORPORATION

The annual report is right there. The following that link. Go ahead and click on the annual report. Hell, click on Rossi's handwritten application for Articles of Incorporation.

Detail by Entity Name

Florida Profit Corporation

LEONARDO CORPORATION

Filing Information

Document Number	P10000091220
FEI/EIN Number	APPLIED
Date Filed	11/08/2010
State	FL
Status	ACTIVE

Principal Address

1331 LINCOLN RD., APT 505
MIAMI BEACH FL 33139

Mailing Address

1331 LINCOLN RD., APT 505
MIAMI BEACH FL 33139

Registered Agent Name & Address

ROSSI, ANDREA
1331 LINCOLN RD., APT 505
MIAMI BEACH FL 33139

Officer/Director Detail

Name & Address

Title PD

ROSSI, ANDREA
1331 LINCOLN RD., APT 505
MIAMI BEACH FL 33139

Title SD

TRAVIS, JAMES R
8 TOWN FARM ROAD
NEW BOSOTON NH 03070

Annual Reports

Report Year	Filed Date
2011	04/29/2011

Document Images

04/29/2011 -- ANNUAL REPORT
11/08/2010 -- Articles of Incorporation

Note: This is not official record. See documents if question or conflict.

[CodeToad]

P.S. Click on the ‘Articles of Incorporation. It has Andrea Rossi’s HANDWRITTEN application.

[Lx]

I still think it's a matter of Rossi naming his companies similar to ones in existence that are near the area he's in.

This guy: Bob Gentile. What is his deal? The pitifully thin Ampenergo website's DNS entry was done by a proxy. There's nothing wrong with that but this whole thing gets weirder and weirder and before someone says it, no, it being real doesn't help any of this make sense.

Interesting link about the TE devices.

Don't click on the dodfuelcell link unless you want to get noticed.

This long thread says Rossi sold LTI in the '90s. It's a good read that neither seems to endorse or debunk Rossi's E-Cat.