Posted on 10/30/2011 9:02:17 PM PDT by Kevmo
Rebuttal to Krivit's Accusation that Andrea Rossi is a Fraudster
LENR Expert, Steven Krivit, who traveled to Bologna in June, was not impressed with Andrea Rossi's E-Cat reactor technology, and has been highly critical ever since. He has now crossed a line to actually accusing Rossi of running an intentional scam. We don't buy it.
(See also our Oct. 28 coverage: 1 MW E-Cat Cold Fusion Device Test Successful)
Steven Krivit, right, arrived in Bologna on June 15, 2011 to interview Mr. Rossi (left) and to have a look to the E-Cat .
By Sterling D. Allan with Hank Mills
Pure Energy Systems News
Steven Krivit, who has operated a journal for years on Cold Fusion called "New Energy Times", published an scathing piece today called Noble Aspirations Are Not Enough in which he accuses Andrea Rossi, inventor of the cold fusion E-Cat, of running an intentional scam .
Scam? I think that is 99% improbable.
Part of that is because I am privy to some confidential information about an independent validation by a very credible institution that starts with an N .
I would not entirely rule out Steve's accusations of fraud; but I personally find that extremely unlikely. I give it a 1% probability just because I have fooled before by people I thought were genuine but who turned out to be scammers.
I have approached Rossi many times since January with emails I've received from people wanting to invest in his company, or buy units. Every time, he turns them away, saying "wait until after the 1 MW plant test." If he was running a scam, you would think he would have taken this money .
In his press conference in January, Rossi announced that he would be having a 1 MW plant ready for commercial production by October. He has been working feverishly toward that end, putting in 14-18 hour days continuously. I arrived early and am staying late here in Bologna so I could help him with some website content and business strategizing. He agreed to let me come early. But he was so busy by the time I arrived, that he didn't even have time for a meal together, or for me to bring a snack. "I only take 5 minutes for a sandwich," he said .
This is not the behavior of someone running a scam. He is behaving like a man with a mission, with a passion for his work .
Last June, Krivit travelled to Bologna to test Andrea Rossi's system, at Rossi's invite. Krivit was not impressed, and has been highly critical ever since .
Krivit's account of Rossi's telling him about his "ah ha moment" bothers me, but one possible explanation is that Rossi didn't understand the question. He has a hard time understanding spoken English, and he doesn't understand written English perfectly either. Another explanation is that Rossi is extremely guarded about the proprietary aspects of his technology. He doesn't tell anyone everything, and he's only told certain key recipes to a very few people. So in answering such a question, a lot of the hesitation would come from wondering how to describe it without revealing any proprietary information .
I don't have a problem with Rossi's experience with the Petrol Dragon. He was set up by the Italian Mafia because he wouldn't let them get involved in his company. They were behind all of that harassment he received, and from which he was exonerated. I would imagine there is something similar behind the gold trafficking situation as well .
I'm further bolstered by the sentiment I received from Rossi since meeting him in person here in Bologna. He was already friendly toward me by email and phone. A person at the event said that "he is very intuitive when he meets someone." I felt like Rossi liked me a lot more after meeting me, and was even fawning toward me as valued supporter of what he is trying to do for the benefit of humanity. That's what motivates me as well. Some of that favoritism can be seen toward the end of the 1-hour report and Q&A he did at the end of the day on Oct. 28. (Parts I and II of IV are now up at http://youtu.be/nc5K090SZFg and http://youtu.be/1UmoBoAcvxg. We'll be doing a separate story about that. )
No, Rossi is not an academic. He doesn't set up his tests in an academic way. That takes many months or even years. He's in a hurry. I like that about him. I don't have a problem with that in the least. It took four years of airplanes flying around before academics finally admitted they were wrong about man not being able to build flying craft .
Our civilization is on the brink of total meltdown. We need this technology to go to market now. Rossi is doing that. He should be applauded, not harassed .
Now that this first customer has signed off on this technology, and Rossi will be receiving funds, he can pay the half million needed for the University of Bologna and Uppsala University to begin doing their tests, which will take 2 years. I spoke with Associate Professor Loris Ferrari at length about the upcoming testing at the University of Bologna. He will be one of the five or six professors involved. The others are Doctors Levi, Bonetti, Campari, and Villa. The first year will be dedicated to addressing the "how", and the second year will cover the "why", seeking to wrap a good theory around the phenomenon. The first report won't be out for at least a year .
Are you happy with that kind of time frame (for requiring academic sign-off first before moving forward)? Maybe if we had all the time in the world. We don't .
Meanwhile, hopefully millions of customers will be served with product; and mainstream academia will have been shown to be behind the times once again. So if you are a customer or media rep who wants the academic nod before you will move on this, fine; wait two years. Meanwhile, there's an energy revolution starting, and I like being on the front end of things -- the bleeding edge -- not the tail .
In the future, when people are giving PowerPoint presentations about the failures of mainstream academia, I predict that Academia's excoriation of cold fusion for two decades will be seen as an even larger failure and oversight than their 4 year lag time on human flight .
And Steven Krivit -- one of the key go-to guys for cold fusion (he doesn't call it that) -- being a primary opponent, actually accusing Rossi of "fraud", will be another sad commentary on our day. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Krivit ends up being shown to be mind controlled in the least (10% probability), and possibly even knowingly on the payroll of vested interests (2% probability), with a mission to discredit Rossi. But we can't make that kind of accusation without evidence, and I don't know of any yet .
This much I can say. When I talked to Mat Lewans of NyTeknik and Robert Svensson of AP separately about Krivit's hit piece on October 28, which mentioned them in a negative light, they both shook their heads and said something about being misrepresented. I found them both to be plenty cautious and scientific in their thinking and approach. Lewans was running calculations even as Rossi was reading the report Friday night. (I show him doing that in the video footage I recorded.)
My personal experience through phone and email with Steven Krivit is that he is an extremely difficult person to get along with. Cantankerous. Doesn't even try to be friendly. That tells me that today's hit piece is most likely just a function of a bad personality acting out (85% probability). That leaves 1% probability that Krivit is actually right, and a margin of 2% for other scenarios. I could be wrong. I'm certainly human .
Commentary by Hank Mills
There is zero doubt in my mind that the E-Cat (Energy Catalyzer) technology produces large amounts of excess energy via novel nuclear processes that can best be described by the term "cold fusion." For anyone to claim that Andrea Rossi is perpetuating a scam or hoax, is simply irrational at best, in my opinion. At worst, it indicates such individuals may have a specific agenda to try and falsely discredit the technology.
Over the past year, Andrea Rossi has performed around a dozen tests of the E-Cat, in which he allowed independent experts (scientists and engineers) to participate. All of these tests showed clear evidence of large amounts of excess energy. The tests that incorporated the E-Cat running in a self-sustaining mode utilizing near zero input (except the power used to operate the pumps, fans, and radio frequency generator?), especially make it clear that the technology can produce massive amounts of anomalous output, in the form of heat.
The case can be made that many of the tests of the E-Cat could have been performed in a better or more detailed way. By utilizing real-time electronic data collection to record all data from the instrumentation used, placing thermocouples in additional locations, the use of a "control" run, and taking certain other measures the results from many tests could have been much more precise. However, such precision and advanced methods of testing have not been required to prove the technology works as claimed. The massive amounts of heat produced by the E-Cat makes such precision testing unnecessary, even if such modern methods would have been extremely desirable.
Some of the evidence we have that the technology works as claims is simply irrefutable beyond measure. The recent test of the one megawatt plant showed operation in a self sustaining mode for five and a half hours. During this period of self sustaining operation, the temperature of the steam produced did not drop until the plant was shut down, and the test was ended. At times the temperature increased modestly. This would be impossible, unless a novel cold fusion reaction was indeed taking place -- producing huge amounts of excess energy. To be blunt, there is no way the reactor could have been producing hundreds of kilowatts of output in self sustain mode, unless something truly spectacular was taking place inside of it .
Of course some skeptics will scream that the huge amount of output produced is only due to the "thermal inertia" of the system. According to this ridiculous theory, the input energy originally supplied to the system is stored in the materials that compose the reactor, and is then released when the input energy is cut off (when the system goes into self-sustain). This is an insane argument, because the materials used to build the modules have too low of a specific heat (or heat storing capacity) to store that much energy. Also, it ignores the fact that a system cannot simply choose to store energy for a period of time (while transferring no heat to the water being pumped through the system), and then start releasing the stored heat ONLY when the input power is cut off.
Let's consider another important point. Any input power used -- along with the heat energy from nuclear reactions -- is continually being removed from the materials that compose the modules, from the moment the resistors are turned on. The stored energy the hardcore skeptics claim powers the system during self sustain mode, simply could not be there! Both because the materials used cannot store that much energy, and the input energy has continually been leaving the system as heat. Their false argument is not valid, unless they want to claim the law of thermodynamics is being broken!
Andrea Rossi knows the technology works, because he has built and tested hundreds, if not thousands of reactors. He has allowed third parties to make tests of his systems, that the general public is not aware of at this time. Although there may occasionally be technical problems with a test (such as resistors breaking or leaking gaskets), the years of experience he has accumulated and the results achieved prove the validity of the technology beyond any doubt.
- If the technology did not work, why would he have sold his stake in Leonardo Technologies Inc., properties in Italy, and eventually his home in Florida to finance his work.
- If the technology did not work, Defkalion and the very credible board of directors would not be so eager to renew their relationship with Rossi .
- If the technology did not work, Rossi's competitors (who are working on inferior versions of Ni-H cold fusion reactors that do not produce practical amounts of output) would be continually attacking him, writing obviously false articles about the technology, and trying to discredit him. It seems obvious to me, that they are extremely jealous of how much energy the E-Cat can produce .
- If the technology did not work, NASA would not be involved with nickel-hydrogen cold fusion research .
- If the technology did not work, his systems would not be able to be producing (for example in this most recent test) hundreds of kilowatts of output with almost zero input -- for several hours -- while cooling water is running through them! This is impossible .
The E-Cat technology is the real deal. No reasonable person who has been keeping up with the events of this year can say otherwise, unless they have an agenda. I will of course state that the technology is not perfect yet, and can use additional R and D. For example, Rossi cannot always control the reactions that are produced. In fact, in the most recent test, he had to REDUCE the output each module could produce, because the reactor core temperatures were getting too high! If he had run the modules at full throttle, even more energy would have been produced. The consequence might have been that the nickel powder could have melted in one or more reactors, and the modules could have been permanently "dead" afterwards -- until the reactor cores were replaced .
One idea that has been floated around by cynics is that Rossi is a fraudster trying to make money by lying about his technology. The simple truth is that scammers and con-artists spend other people's money, and don't touch their own. Rossi is the opposite, in that he has continually turned down proposed business deals and even donations, because he does not want to, "play with the bones of others." This latest test cost him a large amount of money to conduct, and to pay for it he had to sell his home. A con man would not be making such sacrifices .
I'm convinced the E-Cat technology is legitimate, and this recent test is absolute proof. I hope there will be more detailed information about the test released, because it will be very useful in determining exactly how much energy was produced. It would help those interested in the technology produce lots of fancy graphs and charts showing how much energy was produced. But it's really not necessary, because the information already revealed shows the output was huge, constant, and continued unceasingly for five and a half hours .
Cold fusion is here, and it's called the E-Cat.
P.S.: I have also noticed that one of Rossi's detractors has been pushing one particular theory for many years, the Widom Larsen theory. This theory tries to deny that a cold "fusion" process is taking place, by claiming that only beta decay is occurring. I have noticed this particular individual attacks those who criticizes Widom Larsen theory, and heaps praise on those who support it. I also noticed that his attacks on Rossi increased dramatically, not long after Rossi stated his technology has nothing to do with Widom Larsen theory. I think this shows an agenda, rather than brainwashing. [See our May 31 coverage about Widom-Larsen theory: Cold Fusion #1 Claims NASA Chief]
It seems to me, the whole push -- especially by certain individuals who are critical of Rossi -- to support Widom Larsen theory is a ploy by the so called, "powers that be" to put a better "spin" on the reality of cold fusion. If the general population of the world was to suddenly realize that due to a combination of extreme skepticism, arrogance, and greed a energy panacea was pushed to the side, there could be major political ramifications. Therefore, by pushing a theory that denies there is any "fusion" in "cold fusion", they can better control how the public reacts when the truth is revealed.
From their point of view, they would rather try to suppress and discredit a practical cold fusion technology like the E-Cat, and replace it with more primitive versions of the technology. By supporting those individuals who have produced results no where near what Rossi has, they can insure that the introduction of "not-fusion", will be slow, and controlled manner. Most importantly, the public will not be as likely to fully "wake up" about what *really* happened. They don't want the "mundanes" to know they are responsible for twenty years of environmental destruction, the current energy crisis, and massive human suffering -- which all could have been reduced if cold fusion technology had been taken seriously twenty years ago .
Source: FrigidFlamma
Full Disclosure:
I am seeking a business relationship with Andrea Rossi. My trip was sponsored by Farlie Paynter of Canada, as well as by Mike Spitzauer, CEO of Green Power Inc (GPI), the Waste-to-Diesel Fuel company in Pasco, Washington.
We only have Rossi’s claim that there is a customer.
***Also the claims of the others who were there.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2800077/posts
Unfortunately, if Rossi hired a bunch of actors to pretend to be the customer reps, created an elaborate year-long special-effects-derived series of demos, bribed, hypnotised or otherwise fooled Focardi, Levi, Kullander, Essen, Bianchini, Stremmenos and convinced a bunch of Greek crooks to set up a dummy company called Defkalion to pretend to fight with him over the non-existent eCat, to perpetuate the illusion and spin it off into a competing mirror-scam and convinced his former partners to set up another company called Ampenergo to pretend that they had a contract for The Americas for a substantial sum or that they just did this with no proof because they have worked with Rossi and trust him because he’s such a fine fellow, arranged for Piantelli, Miley and a host of others to try to fool the world into thinking that cold fusion was real, got NASA, SPAWAR, The Defense Threat Reduction Agency and The Defense Intelligence Agency to say nice things about the field, got Bushnell to make a fool of himself, sold his profitable company to his ex-partners in order to spend that wealth on a multi-million dollar scam; certain that once he got all the above ducks in a row he would pretend to sell the first device and then reel in the true target of his dastardly plan – the second (this time genuine) buyer of a 1MW plant that will net him $2 million dollars until they want their money back or sucker a $100 million dollar deal under the table because he has experience in pulling the wool over all these idiotic eyes and knows that they will just take his word for it and not want to test if his 1MW plant can heat a small village without truckloads of coal or oil or a big fat electric cable coming into the container from beneath the floor (no you can’t lift the carpet!) and that, in order to pull this off, Rossi had to risk discovery by interviewing all the people he subsequently fooled so that he could only invite the gullible Professors and not the brilliant anonymous posters on the Internet who surely would have found him out – then all bets are off and I’m with the guys who think that Rossi is an idiot and they are all geniuses .
Thanks for the link. I’d love to buy one.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62
It appears that a relatively innocuous post responding to you was pulled.
This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.
55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies | Report Abuse]
That’s easy. He’s trying to get investors.
***Then his payoff is in the future, right? There is no evidence on the ground right now that it is a scam, right now. Rossi has nothing to gain right now; his supposed scam payoff is in the future.
The most sophisticated scam in history.
I look at this whole thing not as a lawyer, but as a scientist.
***Then do you accept that the Pons-Fleischmann effect has been replicated more than 14,700 times? I do not know of any other scientific fact that scientists are so afraid of acknowledging.
What do you post, about 2-4 blogs postings a day about this scam?
Feel free to prove that it is a scam, or even give evidence that we have not heard. Most of your colleagues haven’t even seagulled onto that thread. Why? Because when push comes to shove, they get most of their information about scams from watching fictional TV shows or movies.
How to Prove that the Rossi/Focardi eCAT LENR is Real (or Fake)
LENR.QUMBO.com ^ | April 6, 2011 | Alan Fletcher
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 7:52:15 PM by Kevmo
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2730401/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2800077/posts
Unfortunately, if Rossi hired a bunch of actors to pretend to be the customer reps, created an elaborate year-long special-effects-derived series of demos, bribed, hypnotised or otherwise fooled Focardi, Levi, Kullander, Essen, Bianchini, Stremmenos and convinced a bunch of Greek crooks to set up a dummy company called Defkalion to pretend to fight with him over the non-existent eCat, to perpetuate the illusion and spin it off into a competing mirror-scam and convinced his former partners to set up another company called Ampenergo to pretend that they had a contract for The Americas for a substantial sum or that they just did this with no proof because they have worked with Rossi and trust him because he’s such a fine fellow, arranged for Piantelli, Miley and a host of others to try to fool the world into thinking that cold fusion was real, got NASA, SPAWAR, The Defense Threat Reduction Agency and The Defense Intelligence Agency to say nice things about the field, got Bushnell to make a fool of himself, sold his profitable company to his ex-partners in order to spend that wealth on a multi-million dollar scam; certain that once he got all the above ducks in a row he would pretend to sell the first device and then reel in the true target of his dastardly plan – the second (this time genuine) buyer of a 1MW plant that will net him $2 million dollars until they want their money back or sucker a $100 million dollar deal under the table because he has experience in pulling the wool over all these idiotic eyes and knows that they will just take his word for it and not want to test if his 1MW plant can heat a small village without truckloads of coal or oil or a big fat electric cable coming into the container from beneath the floor (no you can’t lift the carpet!) and that, in order to pull this off, Rossi had to risk discovery by interviewing all the people he subsequently fooled so that he could only invite the gullible Professors and not the brilliant anonymous posters on the Internet who surely would have found him out – then all bets are off and I’m with the guys who think that Rossi is an idiot and they are all geniuses .
The most sophisticated scam in history.I've posted links to articles about more sophisticated scams, but you proudly stated that you won't bother reading them.
So says Rossi. We don’t have any actual evidence of this. All we have is Rossi’s claim, and his claim that his “secret company” was satisfied with the test. ***There were others there, like the author of this article. This is the first time I’ve caught you in a distortion. That’s unusual to find someone who can actually stick to the facts to a reasonable extent — until now, but I’ve lowered my standards for pathological skeptics.Saying that everyone there must be part of the scam is like saying that everyone at a Three-Card Monte game must be part of the scam.
You've made this mistake several times before. Do you have any evidence that the rest of the attendees had more information about the "secret" company than the rest of us? Or are they relying on the same "evidence" as the rest of us: Rossi's unsubstantiated claims?
Well, if by "applying the presumed laws of physics" you mean, isolating the device from inputs and measuring the output, I suppose you have a point.
I mean, whether it's "Jewish physics" or "male modes of thinking" or "white science", there's always an excuse why A does not equal A.
It is not necessary to presume any "laws" to validate or falsify Rossi's observations.
All that is necessary is replication, and the work shouldn't take an 8-hour day.
Tell exDemMom about the source of the 14700 number first, then we can form an opinion on whether it's a "fact."
I wasn't referring to a general measurement of inputs (I presume you refer to energy input) and outputs (again, I presume you mean energy outputs).
I was responding to a post where the poster said the device should be evaluated as to an expected, according the law of physics, elemental reaction. That poster wrote:
One merely needs to demonstrate that precise quantities of starting materials (nickel and hydrogen) entered the system, and that a precise quantity of copper and leftover starting materials resulted.
So, yes, many of focused on the desire for a more public measurement of how much energy the generator was inputting and exactly how much energy the e-CAT was outputting.
But, repeating for clarity: I understood this poster as saying another way to "scientifically" evaluate the reaction inside the e-CAT would be to compare "the precise quantities of starting materials (nickel and hydrogen)" to the precise quantities of ending materials, specifically copper.
What I was trying to say was that particular evaluation was based on a reaction *expected* solely on the "law of physics."
IOW, the law of physics says nickel and hydrogen react in such a way and copper is produced in such a way and the amounts of nickel and hydrogen that are input determine the amount of copper that is output in such a way.
If an inventor, say, stumbled upon a reaction that simply did not occur the way the law of physics said it "would" ("should") -- let's say there was no denying that something else was going on, and that something else was presently replicable BUT NOT EXPLAINABLE, but rather, in fact, it somehow CONTRADICTED the expected (orthodox) way in which these elements were "known" to react ---
As I said, why would an inventor take a process he knows is replicable, but is, at least at the moment, unorthodox, and subject it to "testing" by people who would only rigidly evaluate it against orthodoxy?
Here's a simple analogy:
Let's say there's a "law" (orthodoxy) that when you add known starting elements, food coloring in the primary colors blue and yellow together, the result is a known result, food coloring in the color green.
(Now, you could take this further, and talk about how the known starting quantities should result in a known shade of green, i.e., how much nickel and hydrogen is inputted should result in a known quantity of copper outputted. But that's an aside for now.)
What if a scientist applied a catalyst to the process of adding the blue and yellow food colors together. And no matter how many times he added them and applied the catalyst, the result was not green food coloring, but red food coloring.
Of course, the "law" of food coloring says there's no way adding blue and green food coloring together equals red food coloring.
But, there it is: red food coloring!
Why would that inventor subject his process to evaluation by people whom he knew would rigidly attempt to measure how much green food coloring (the orthodox result) was present at the completion of his process?
My point being: if the orthodox answer is that copper results when nickel and hydrogen combine, subjecting the inventor's process to an orthodox evaluation makes no sense when he knows the result of his process is unorthodox.
This was a philosophical point of discussion. It may or may not apply to Rossi's process.
If the Pons-Fleischmann effect involves hydrogen or deuterium fusing with hydrogen or deuterium, that is an event that would release energy. Rossi is supposedly fusing hydrogen with nickel, an event that would consume energy.
What does the first have to do with the second?
Do you have any evidence that the rest of the attendees had more information about the “secret” company than the rest of us?
***Yes. Rossi said that the customer reps could not be photographed. The other attendees saw them and we did not.
I see you’re here, and that posts are being removed from this thread.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62
It appears that a relatively innocuous post responding to you was pulled.
This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.
55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies | Report Abuse]
The Ni-H experiments were started after the D-Pd experiments and reported the same kind of excess heat, falling under the Pons-Fleischmann effect. It was much more difficult to get results in Ni-H systems than D-Pd systems.
Here is a typical Ni-H paper:
Violante, V., et al. Analysis Of Ni-Hydride Thin Film After Surface Plasmons Generation By Laser Technique - ICCF10
Do you have any evidence that the rest of the attendees had more information about the “secret” company than the rest of us?So, the other observers saw some people standing around. I guess that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were legit. It's not like Rossi could bring in some shills.
***Yes. Rossi said that the customer reps could not be photographed. The other attendees saw them and we did not.
All we know is that Rossi claimed to have secret representatives of a secret company. I haven't seen any reports from anyone else at the dog & pony show that provided even a hint that these secret representatives were legitimate. All we have is Rossi's word.
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