Eric Scott - What could he have done differently?

[expat1000]

Have to use common sense, Jesse.

They tell you to drop the gun. You are not holding the gun. Common sense tells you that drawing the weapon so you can precisely follow the orders and drop it is not a good move, right? Neither is anything but slowly moving into the universal pose of submission which is hands over head.

I imagine they yelled “drop the gun” because they were nervous or even scared and automatically did what they have been trained to do.

I’m not suggesting this was a justified shooting, although it sounds like it *might* have been.

[21twelve]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2556714/posts

Transcript of the police radio talking about setting up command post, evacuating the store, etc.

[USNBandit]

I was talking about the Nevada Costcos. This incident happened in Vegas. Nevada CCW law says you don't have to follow such signs if posted, but businesses can ask you to leave without reason under threat of trespass. Costco get around that law because it is a "club" you have to join and as such isn't a public place.

As far as 2 seconds to react, its sound like from the reports he reacted to the verbal commands by attempting to dump his holstered firearm on the ground. Not the the verbal command the officer should have made. It should have been. "Stop, put your hand up, don't move. I see your weapon, don't make any movement towards your weapon." and then prone the guy out.

[Moonman62]

Well, 3 guys waiting outside with drawn guns for someone to walk through the door, right or wrong, sounds like an ambush. What's the difference between that and an ambush?

IIRC, they had just arrived at the front door where everybody was exiting because the building was being evacuated. At that time somebody pointed out Scott. IIRC, Mosher identified himself and was in uniform. Scott had time to reach behind his back and grab his weapon. I don't believe that's an ambush. What's your definition of an ambush?

[21twelve]

Agreed on doing what the cops tell you to do.

However, several witnesses give conflicting reports on what was said and done. (I was right in my recollection - everything from “drop the gun” with no gun in his hand to “get on the ground”.) And some eyewitnesses have a gun in his hand when shot, no gun, and gun in the holster.

I thought the “deer in the headlight” comment made sense. It may have taken Scott a second or so to realize all of the fuss was about him. And with regard to the surprise and shock and delayed reactions, a doctor also mentioned “no one tried to help him, including me - I was in shock”.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/eyewitness-testimony-continues-103789284.html

[USNBandit]

Cops make mistakes and sometimes they give you commands you can follow. Putting your hands up, fingers outstretched with nothing in them will always get safe response. Despite what is coming out of a cop's mouth, his brain will compute what he sees as compliance.

I have thought out this same scenario because I always carry a weapon, even though there is a federal badge right next to it. I would never, ever attempt to do what this guy did and touch the holster.

Don't get me wrong, the police screwed up by not deciding who would be the "contact" officer, issuing commands. Those conflicting and incorrect commands caused this incident.

[Ernie Kaputnik]

“Police shoot people for disobeying orders?”

Hope the lack of a sarcasm tag was an honest mistake on your part.

But if not, I'll answer that question for you:
Of course they do. All the time.

But, if you're lucky, and happen to be in the city of Fullerton, they may not shoot you. They may just handcuff you, then taze you, spray you with pepper spray and proceed to beat the living crap out of you until you're comatose. (Sarcasm tag deliberately not included.)

Silly question.

[Ernie Kaputnik]

“You’re not serious.”

Oh, contraire. I believe he is, and I agree with him.

Too many damn cop apologists on this thread, IMHO.

[Lancey Howard]

So you would have just stood there with your hands up, ignoring repeated orders of "DROP THE GUN DROP THE GUN?"

I would definitely NOT put my hand anywhere near my gun, and I would say exactly that to the police. Even newbie police fresh from the academy would know to then instruct me to turn around with my hands on my head and drop to my knees. They would then approach me safely from behind, grab my hands, and apply the cuffs.

They would not shrug and shoot me for standing still with my hands in the air, especially with a crowd around.

[nkycincinnatikid]

mark

[Salamander]

They tasered my cousin to death because the big sissy wouldn’t stop running away and crying.

Somewhere between 3 and 5 cops zapped him at once.

It stopped him from running, alright...and stopped his heart.

Routine traffic stop but he was so terrified he panicked.

Dead guy leaves behind young daughter, now with no dad -or- mom.

The end.

[raybbr]

Is it safe to drop a loaded weapon?

[Mad Dawg]

I wonder if the officers broke procedure and training or if they had no procedure and training for this sort of incident.

[goat granny]

I asked my dad that once....(back in the 60’s) and he said anyone that would shoot a policeman who has a gun will shoot anyone period. Especially those without guns.. don't know if that is an answer to anyone’s question or not, but its all I have....as far as personal hiring, the standards are much lower to day that what they use to be...for instance: Keeping in mind that my father was a cop from 1925-1950, one of his buddies was spotted coming out of a blind pig with his wife, and not on duty, he was fired the next day.. They remained friends for the rest of their lives...unions also make it harder to get rid of the idiot with a gun and badge..there has always been bad and corrupt cops, just now its unionizing that makes it harder to get rid of them plus every now and then you read an article of some felon that make it onto the forceand just shake your head at the hiring practices of some forces......

[USNBandit]

Go up to post 25 and check out the link to the LRJ article. It sounds like a lot of witnesses say he went for his gun or looked like he was going for his gun. One of the witnesses is a recent police academy graduate who isn’t working for the PD. You throw his testimony out like the Russian judge’s score in a skating competition and you still have a lot of people making it look like a good shoot. Several of them say they only heard one officer giving commands.

[Mad Dawg]

thnx.

yeah