Posted on 09/26/2011 2:15:27 PM PDT by Morgana
A high school student from Eastern Washington got a restraining order against his principal, after claiming the school leader threatened to use a pocketknife and to cut off a rosary the teen wears around his neck.
18-year-old Roel Corral, a student at Kiona-Benton City High School, is Catholic and wears a rosary to school. He says principal Wayne Barrett told him to remove it and threatened him, according to the Tri-City Herald newspaper which has been following this story.
Corral won a court hearing that ordered Barrett to stay at least 100 feet away from Corral, but earlier this week the judge's decision was modified to 25 feet on school property or at school events. The principal said the original order would have made it impossible for him to do his job.
If the principal threatened the student, which he denies, that's one issue. The question I have for you - is the principal right or wrong to ask Corral to remove a rosary from his neck? Here's the school's dress code:
(Excerpt) Read more at mynorthwest.com ...
There is no such thing and a religiously neutral education and government should get out of it. Work toward complete privatization of all education. That is the only solution that is compatible with the First Amendment and freedom of conscience.
You are not alone. :)
Sheesh. Layers inside of layers to this.
You think it is OK to have to **PROVE** to the government your religion? Huh?
Where is that in the First Amendment?
I see your point and acknowledge that there is a first amendment issue.
But we are working with world as it is not the world as we wish it to be.
Government schools exist and are not likely to go away soon. I doubt the USSC will anytime soon take up the issue of Government schools being incompatible with the 1st Amendment
So I think we will just have to find some way of making a compromise with religious freedom and school dress codes.
I’d post, but you posted so I no longer have to post. Well said.
I disagree. Large and seemingly intractable institutions can and *have** lost their legitimacy overnight. Some examples are slavery, the Protestant Reformation, the American Revolution, the fall of absolute monarchy, Jim Crow, women and the vote...etc.
Nearly every state in the Union ( all?) have some form of charters, vouchers, and tax credits. The waiting lists are enormous for these programs. The legislators are not deaf to the cries and pleas of the families. And....The biggest factor is the state budgets. Vouchers, tax credits, and charters are the quickest and most rational way to balance the state budget and get from under the thumb of the teacher union benefits and retirement.
Also...Taxpayers are sick of the high property taxes ( in some states as high as one parent's entire take-home salary) to pay for government schools that teach atheism and Marxism and fail to teach basic reading and arithmetic.
I am very hopeful.
Besides....It is now becoming common knowledge that it is impossible to have a religiously neutral education. Secularism in our government schools is nothing more that government established religion of atheism. Parents and taxpayers are sick of it.
1) From the article it is impossible to know the religiously beliefs of the youth.
2) A religiously neutral education is impossible and not matter what the government does it will not be religiously neutral in content or consequences either for the youth or the other kids in the school.
3) The only solution that is compatible with the First Amendment and freedom of conscience, not only for the youth but the other students as well, is to work toward complete privatization of all education.
4) This kid is likely a snot! If he had been in a private school from the beginning both he and his parents would likely have had the benefit of feeling the full force of the law of natural consequences, and today, he might not be a brat.
Where in the Constitution does it say you have the free exercise of religion but only have government workers talk to the clergy?
I’d like to clarify. The offense would be wearing the rosary as a piece of jewelry. I was simply suggesting (if the child is part of a Catholic family) that (AWAY from school, etc) the parents would set up a time to talk their parish clergy to have the issue clarified for the child. I don’t know what I wrote that is so upsetting. Wearing of the rosary (at a minimum) is a total distraction in a school setting. Please write me again and let me know what I have said re First Amendment rights. Thank you.
If you think about it most of the radical changes you mention really took decades if not centuries to truly come about. Most of them involved long bloody wars.
Also...Taxpayers are sick of the high property taxes ( in some states as high as one parent's entire take-home salary) to pay for government schools
Even the end of government schools is not likely to end property taxes. If you replace government schools with private schools you will likely still have property taxes to fund vouchers. In my state property taxes pay for many other state and local government functions.
I think getting rid of government schools is a worthy goal, I just don’t think it is a near term goal. The reason I mentioned the USSC before is because that it the only even remotely likely way I see of ending government run education. There are simply too many deeply imbedded interest in public education.
And the people who believe those things aren't Catholic.
They just wear the tee-shirt.
But if the principal was not acting reasonably, it must also be said that the boy was not acing devoutly.
Any government worker powerful enough to uphold your religious beliefs is also powerful enough to trash them. This is true whether it is a school or any other institution ( private or government).
OK...So let's look at the First Amendment problems with this case that are irresolvable. The school must make a binary decision to either allow the rosary around the neck or forbid it. Both allowing and disallowing is impossible. So....
1) The school disallows the rosary around the neck:
The youth ( and indirectly his family) are denied free expression of their syncretic Catholic belief.
**ALL** the students are taught that some religions are more favored than others. Atheistic humanist secularism has the government imprimatur and is the religion taught in all government schools, and that **certainly** is an establishment of religion problem ( establishment of atheism)!
There is a freedom to assembly problem as well because the youth with the rosary is **forced** to assemble with students and government workers with whom he and his family disagree on religious matters.
2) The government allows the rosary around the neck:
This is both an establishment of religion and free assembly problem. **All** of the students are forced to assemble with this youth are subjected to direct and indirect exposure to this youth's syncretic Catholic belief systems. ( Something that even truly Catholic parents might find objectionable.)
There is only **one** possible solution that is compatible with the First Amendment and freedom of conscience: Begin the process of privatizing all education in the nation.
That’s a good way to put it.
Personally, I think the kid is probably an overgrown snot. ...But...From the article it is hard to know how sincere his beliefs are, or even if they are truly Catholic or syncretic.
Fundamentally, the very nature of government schooling puts government workers in the position of reading the content of one’s heart, and then using government force to either promote or suppress expression of religious belief. And...then there are the freedom of assemble problems for both the student and all of his classmates.
Fundamentally, all government schooling is
You have a good point (I think erhaps you meant to finish your final sentence with the words “... spiritual tyranny” or something of that sort.)
I am opposed to public schooling for just this reason. I certainly support the separation fo School and State.
That’s what I was thinking about.I see quite a few people wearing them. Is it some kind of fashion statement?
American Catholics do not wear the rosary like a necklace. Latino Caholics do. I don’t know if the kid is a punk or not but any teacher/principal who threatens to put a knife anywhere a kid of mine is in deep kimchi and I don’t mean lawsuit either.
American Catholics do not wear the rosary like a necklace. Latino Caholics do. I don’t know if the kid is a punk or not but any teacher/principal who threatens to put a knife anywhere a kid of mine is in deep kimchi and I don’t mean lawsuit either.
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