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To: SeekAndFind; betty boop; metmom; Alamo-Girl
The idea that the Universe created itself out of nothing seems somehow unsatisfactory

I know of no Christian Cosmology which makes this absurd statement. First Principles state the following: "Everything which comes to be has a cause." The capricious statement that the universe (notwithstanding the capitalization of the word Universe, which should not go unnoticed) created itself ex nihlo has never been advocated from Christian cosmology. It has, however been misstated time and again by seemingly illinformed atheists with an agenda. They create this pretext, taken out of context for their text. It is the underpinning cosmology of atheists and Hindu.

The simple syllogism is as follows:

Everything which comes to be has a cause

The universe exists

Therefore the universe had a cause.

The 20th century cause of Cosmology has largely been one attempt after the other to do away with a beginning of the Universe. Einstein hated the idea of a beginning. The great astronomer and Christian Arthur Eddington said he found to idea of a beginning to be so absurd that he would be shocked if anyone else believed it, except himself. Fred Hoyle, father of the idea of a steady state, finally capitulated and accepted the idea of a beginning. As did, Penzias, Wilson, Hubble, Smute, Goddard, and hundreds of other men who examined, without presuppositions against facts, concluded the same thing.

Richard Dawkins was so convicted to his worldview that upon William Lane Craig going to Cambridge, England this summer to debate Dawkins, Dawkins, in a display of cowardice, so self-evident, no casual observer could deny the feckless Dawkins, like the mental pigmey that he is, ran for the tall weeds to avoid Dr.Craig. They keep pumping out these articles, keep calling others names who disagree with them, and keep avoiding intellectual confrontation with the likes of Dr.Craig, that their motives are revealed in their process....call a name...then run like hell to avoid a logical, reasonable, rational examination of the facts before them....not what they believe (not their faith), just the facts. They claim to be the champion of knowledge, yet their own worldview will not allow for reason and logic via evolutionary model. If it did, they would put it out there. But alas, theirs is an empy vessel devoid of any factual prescription to put the argument to rest. Come forth Mr. Dawkins and let us reason together.

9 posted on 09/16/2011 2:43:47 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter (I ou)
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To: Texas Songwriter
"The capricious statement that the universe (notwithstanding the capitalization of the word Universe, which should not go unnoticed) created itself ex nihlo has never been advocated from Christian cosmology. It has, however been misstated time and again by seemingly illinformed atheists with an agenda."

Not hardly illinformed but, as the structure of your statement indicates, just Atheists with an agenda.

10 posted on 09/16/2011 3:39:45 PM PDT by YHAOS (you betcha!)
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To: Texas Songwriter
Everything which comes to be has a cause

The universe exists

Therefore the universe had a cause.


However, if the universe has not come to be but has always existed, then it either has no cause or has an eternally ongoing cause.

Still, even though within a contingent universe one could posit that one thing cannot happen unless caused by another, it doesn't necessarily follow that the universe, as a whole, that is, existence itself, is the product of such contingency.
13 posted on 09/16/2011 4:38:28 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: Texas Songwriter
Thank you so much for sharing your insights, dear Texas Songwriter!

Come forth Mr. Dawkins and let us reason together.

Indeed.

17 posted on 09/16/2011 9:47:55 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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