Posted on 08/23/2011 5:05:54 PM PDT by nickcarraway
Santa Clara native was apparently prone to sleeping on guard duty; fellow Marines took to disciplining him.
U.S. Marine Corps Lance Corporal Harry Lew took his own life in his foxhole in Afghanistan after he was kicked and punched by fellow Marines, military officials tell NBC Bay Area news.
An investigation into the 21-year-old's April death says Lew "leaned over his M249 squad automatic weapon as it pointed to the sky, placed the muzzle in his mouth and pulled the trigger."
Lew wrote on his arm: "may hate me now, but in the long run this was the right choice I'm sorry my mom deserves the truth."
The suicide came moments after fellow Marines attacked Lew for repeatedly falling asleep on guard duty. An investigation shows Lew, from Santa Clara, was caught asleep at least four separate times in areas where "enemy attack was considered imminent." Military records show Lew, who was on his first tour in Afghanistan, was first counseled then disciplined by a sergeant for sleeping while on post.
At some point, Lew was forced to walk his rounds while carrying a single sandbag, symbolic of the weight of his responsibility to his fellow marines.
On April 3, Lew could not be raised by radio while standing post. A check of his foxhole found him asleep once again.
The unnamed sergeant then announced over the radio that "peers should correct peers," according to military documents. That led to what appears to be a sad series of events.
Fellow lance corporals [whose names have been redacted in the report] ordered Lew to dig a new foxhole as a punishment, then informed Lew he could go to sleep once the task was finished. Those corporals, however, did not inform the sergeant they had given Lew permission to sleep.
At 1:00 a.m., that sergeant, whose name has also been redacted from the report, "angrily confronted [Lew] about why he had again fallen asleep." Other Marines then demanded Lew to perform various physical tasks as punishment and would "stomp down" on Lew's back and legs if he failed to do an exercise properly.
"Towards the end of the physical training", the report says a "sandbag broke open at which point lance corporal [redacted] picked it up and poured the contents on Lew's chest and face as he lay with his back to the ground."
Convinced Lew was responding to his punishment with sarcasm and disrespect, fellow lance corporals then "kicked dirt on Lew, kicked him in the back of the helmet, punched him in the back of his helmet with a force that cut [his attacker's] knuckle."
At some point, a fellow Marine stepped in to stop the attack, saying he didn't "want it on his conscience if Lew killed himself" -- which is exactly what Lew did.
A sergeant is blamed in the report for giving responsibility for Lew's discipline to fellow marines.
"Further, he failed to intervene while those peers undertook inappropriate corrective actions." That sergeant faces court martial when the unit returns from Afghanistan, as does an unnamed lance corporal.
The military says unequivocally that Lew took his own life, though it the report does indicated more than one round was shot from Lew's SAW.
"This command mourns the death of Lance Corporal Lew" reads the final report. "His family and friends have my deepest sympathies" says his commanding officer.
Lew is a 2008 graduate of Santa Clara High School and was assigned to the 2nd battalion, 3rd marine regiment, 3rd Marine division.
His obituary in the San Francisco Chronicle says Lew wrote "Brand new Marine, feels good" on his Myspace page shortly after he joined the military.
NOTE ~ this goes on in civilian life. We had a martinet former Navy officer who had to deal with a member of the staff who developed epilepsy after brain surgery to remove a tumor.
His thought was that the man should be self disciplined enough to overcome his seizures ~ so he used every which way he could think of to punish the guy.
We eventually got rid of the martinet but not before the fellow with epilepsy died of a terminal seizure.
I despise martinets of course, and cannot be counted on by them to go along with their little games. They sometimes detect that but usually they are so caught up in the glow of their own internal fame they make mistakes.
Exactly. There is no excuse for falling asleep on guard duty. If you try hard enough, you will stay awake.
Folks falling asleep on guard duty are not handicapped people we need sympathy for, but slackers. The very rare person who cannot stay awake gets weeded out before combat.
We don’t know that he had control over his sleeping. His officers apparently didn’t care. The enlisted personnel were not qualified to judge his condition.
That is right...replace the man right away. What the heck...that is commonsense! You can not force an issue like that which is so very important. Just fire the man!
See my post #81 before you get too comfortable with your thoughts.
As I said, you are making things up. It also doesn’t matter to his potential victims that he might have had “self-esteem” problems, “depression”, or thought he was the Paraclete of Caborca and the Angel of the Bottomless Pit.
If your husband or son had been killed by Taliban as a result of this guy sleeping on guard duty I am quite sure you would want him hung by the testicles until dead (after a court martial, of course).
“Yours is an unsubstantiated conjecture about draftees.”
No. Our military is as professional and efficient as it’s every been...with a volunteer force.
“Basic and AIT pretty much discover folks with a sleep problem.”
BS. Basic and AIT are easy as shit. You don’t do infantry until you’ve been in a unit for a few years. Nobody knows if this guy was a sleep disorder...maybe he just didn’t give a rats ass about himself. He obviously didn’t care about his fellow Marines.
“With the information we have in the article it’s clear to some of us (with relevant life’s experience) that the kid was suffering from clinical depression “
There is no way in hell there is enough info in the article for a diagnosis of clinical depression. And frankly, neither I nor anyone in his unit would give a tinker’s damn - he had a job to do, and he didn’t do it. Then he killed himself. Why would I or anyone else care?
Lots of folks get depressed in combat. I hated my tours in Saudi, I often despised the rules while flying and getting shot at over Iraq, and I hated my time in Afghanistan. Here is a big turd drop from the Cluebird of Paradise - being in combat sucks. So what?
If you sent folks home for sleeping on guard duty, by the 6th month there wouldn’t be a guard left awake!
Gents, a guard on the battlefield sleeping on duty is a very serious affair punishable by Court-Martial.
In Iraq, we had four snipers who came out of the field and waited at a road junction for pick up. The four snipers were tired after completing a mission and laid down to rest. As is required, they posted one of their team on guard duty while the others fail asleep. The Marine posted on guard duty fail asleep on post. The nearby insurgents were able to walk right up on the Marine snipers and kill them. Three Marines were killed on site while a fourth was captured, tortured, and then killed down the road.
For those of you who have never been in combat, it is easy to second-guess the leadership on why he was not removed. It might just be because they were in deep remote territory while conducting on-going combat missions. Transportation assets might not have been available at the time to pick up one Marine for an administrative run.
Remember, just as was the case of our Marine Snipers in Iraq, this Marine’s actions was a clear and present danger to all his Marines in the field with him. It is regretful the Marine choose this way to end his shame.
I see no problem with the other NCO’s giving this guy some on the job training. You fall asleep on guard duty and you are letting down everyone in the unit and putting their lives at risk. Unacceptable behavior.
I think I’ll sleep well tonight, even knowing muawiyah doesn’t respect me...
Those are genetically controlled conditions ~ talk therapy doesn't work. In a combat situation chronic sleepiness is a special condition ~ it's not like these guys are up partying all night you know.
Modern standards are to treat the nut cases, not shoot them.
Yes, but there should have been standard discipline first and if that didn't work a medical evaluation. And then discharge if that failed. The way it was handled was totally wrong.
And you? Why do I have this image of you kissing their butts and thanking them for identifying the bad guy for you to rage about in private.
“In a combat situation chronic sleepiness is a special condition ~ it’s not like these guys are up partying all night you know. “
By damn, but you don’t know much about life in a combat zone, so you!!!!!
Most folks in a combat zone - not a rear echelon place like Bagram, but out on the front lines like this place apparently was, quickly develop that ancient reptilian disease known as Dragon Ass. You don’t party all night, but you do pull guard duty, or go out on a one day patrol and return eight days later...
As a generality, yes.
I don’t know how you interpreted “A Few Good Men”, but it is kind of along the lines of this - the reason for “Code Red” may have been a little bit of a stretch, but the ‘mentality’ of the ‘front line’ was portrayed rather well (at least for Hollywood).
Kind of like “Wind Talkers” where, when it was revealed that Cage’s ‘job’ was to watch the Code Talker (take him out if it came to that) and everyone backpedaled, when in reality that is the way that it was and the Code Talker probably knew it.
It will be investigated to see if these Marines went over the top and acted dishonorably or not.
The Marines are not real interested in your hyperventalating rationalizations and excuses for what happened. If they did what was reported in the article, this is a big deal and they are up shit’s creek.
“Yes, but there should have been standard discipline first and if that didn’t work a medical evaluation. And then discharge if that failed. The way it was handled was totally wrong. “
Dear Mrs and Mr. parent of soldier,
We are sorry to inform you that your son has been killed. Unfortunately, another soldier fell asleep while on sentry duty in his LP/OP Listening Post Observation Post.
We home that you understand that while we disciplined the soldier we could not discharge him as he was required a medical evaluation prior to discharge.
We are really sorry about that.
This is one of those instances when the considered opinions of civilians and non-combat veterans are even less than worthless, and cross over into stupid.
Asleep four times sounds suspicious to me too. I was active duty in the Navy 85-89 and I never, ever, ever would have DARED doze off on nightwatch. And we were never in combat (though we did anchor off the coast of the Persian Gulf for 3 months. This is a strange story.
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