VANITY: Elizabeth Smart got me thinking--what's up with Mormons?

[Feline_AIDS]

The following is the short version of how I recently discovered Mormonism is nothing like I thought it was.

A few weeks ago, ABC announced that former kidnapping and rape victim Elizabeth Smart would join them as a commenter on kidnapping cases around the country. With the memory of Casey Anthony lingering in my head, I thought, I'll youtube Elizabeth Smart and see what kind of smooth talker she is to be asked to do this. What I found was a beautiful, poised, graceful woman who would never stoop to entering a "hot body contest" like Casey Anthony, but certainly not one I would have guessed would become a news commenter. Those people are expected to repeat facts we've all already heard at least 2374828 times before, only in a more "impactful" way. She seems like the type not to speak unless she has something to say, which is a great and rare quality, however it's certainly not what we expect to see on TV.

So I started googling. I was 16 when Elizabeth Smart was abducted, too young to be scared or concerned because Utah was across the country and if my mother's constant warnings had reflected any shadow of reality, people were abducted left and right all the time anyway.

I read Elizabeth Smart's (ES) testimony in Brian David Mitchell's (BDM) competency hearing, BDM's first interview with police in Sandy, Utah, Wanda Barzee's testimony at BDM's trial, ES's testimony at BDM's trial, ES's statement at BDM's sentencing, the testimony of a head doctor at BDM's competency hearing, and a few articles written soon after ES was found.

As I read, I realized that I knew very little about Mormonism, or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I knew they believed in odd things, Jesus visiting America after his resurrection for example, but that was the extent of my knowledge. (Oh, also a family story: When the Mormons came through South Carolina in the late 1800s, they told one of my relatives that he could have two or more wives if he became a Mormon and went to Utah. He tried to get his current wife to go with him, but she wasn't having it, and he went by himself. He returned a year or two later claiming that the new wives they had given him were combined not as pretty as the wife he already had in South Carolina. She took him back.)

After some more googling, I learned that Mormons believe the following (not exhaustive):

-God has a physical body

-God was once a man, and men on Earth can become equal to God

-God lives near the star Kolob

-God is accompanied by a goddess (or goddesses), who is too holy to talk about, and possibly more powerful/holy than God himself

-Jesus and Satan were brothers

-Jesus was married

-Good Mormons will be rewarded for their works by getting their own planet over which they'll have dominion just like God has over us

-The Bible is imperfectly translated and cannot be trusted

-A tribe of Jews came to North America and perpetuated a HUGE advanced civilization of millions of people (for which there is zero archeological evidence)

-The good tribe was annihilated by the bad tribe in one giant battle in New York state that killed 2+ million people

-The LDS church is controlled by a group of people who receive "revelations" about what to do

-The LDS church has a president whose revelations frequently alter or update church doctrine

(Here's where I'll say that not all Mormons believe these things, because they probably just don't know. Similarly, lots of people who attend my Presbyterian church probably know little about Calvin or what we disagree with other Christians about. Mormons have a policy that some on exmormon.org called "Milk before meat," meaning new members/converts are not told all these beliefs until they are very deeply involved in the church.)

This was quite surprising to me. Mormons are polytheists. Mormonism, I suppose, is actually closer to Islam than it is to Christianity. Islam is defined by the Koran, which is essentially the "final chapter" of the story begun in the Bible. The Book of Mormon is also a "final chapter" of the story begun in the Bible. Both of them radically alter Christianity to the point that it is nothing like it.

Now how does this relate to Elizabeth Smart? She and her Mormon family met her abductor when he was panhandling in SLC. Her mother gave him some money and IIRC, asked if he needed work. Little did she know he was scoping out candidates for the 14-year-old wives he had received a revelation to take. ES's family had him come work on their home. Perhaps you could call this Christian charity, and perhaps that's what it is. But part of me wonders if, since Mormonism is largely a works-based salvation model, their willingness to help BDM was bolstered by the need to do good works. I don't think this equates to blame--not even close. But it might help explain why they invited a drifter they didn't know to come work on a roof where skylights provided a view of the floorplan leading to their daughter's bedroom. I read some past posts on FR about the BDM trial, and the consensus among Freepers commenting was 1) the father, Ed Smart, is ultra creepy, and 2) it was his fault for inviting a bum to work on the house. The declarations of "creepiness" of the father are unfair, I think, because he was the police's #1 suspect at first, he was emotional, his daughter had been kidnapped from the seemingly safe home he had provided for her, and he knew she was probably going through hell. He deserves credit for keeping her story in the news while she was gone and for not giving up hope that she was alive. The fault here belongs to BDM and Wanda Barzee, his wife and accomplice.

To her credit, Elizabeth Smart testified she never believed that BDM was receiving revelations from God, and she never thought he was the prophet he claimed to be. (Lots of people wondered why she didn't run since she was out in public. She testified repeatedly that BDM told her that he would kill her, or if she escaped, her family. He knew people who could do it for him if he was taken to jail. And he was able to get in her house to take her, so why shouldn't she believe the rest?) But Mormonism leaves the door open to these people--these false prophets, one of whom was Joseph Smith himself. BDM was a rapist and a pedophile and deserves to die for his crimes, I think. (He won't--he got a life sentence in his federal trial. Fun BDM anecdote from Wanda Barzee's testimony: He killed his stepdaughter's pet rabbit and fed it to her, telling her it was chicken.) But he was also imitating the theological behavior that the LDS church was founded on. Reading what Wanda Barzee, BDM's wife, said as she testified only confirmed this. Barzee was mentally unstable, but she was also a devout LDS follower. She believed in this culture of latter-day saints and revelations, and it was that belief that enabled her to follow BDM and believe his revelations about plural wives, alcohol, drugs, and the rape of a 14-year-old girl.

The Latter-Day Saints model is a clever design, really. Christianity, "when it happened," physically benefitted no one. Mormonism benefitted Joseph Smith. Christians know that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and that they are saved by grace; there is nothing they can do to earn their salvation. But the LDS Church informs members of "callings," which are works they must perform to remain in good standing. The LDS church has a steady supply of indentured workers laboring desperately for their salvation.

I'm not surprised that something like this exists; I'm surprised that so many people are hoodwinked by the story Joseph Smith made up. Sure, you could say that Christianity is just a story someone made up, too. But the Bible is a historical document that references real people, real people groups, and real places. The Book of Mormon is a fairytale.

Back to Elizabeth Smart: I hope she lives a full and happy life. I genuinely like her and her attitude. I want her to succeed as an ABC correspondent. It was evident from her testimony that she has put the past where it belongs and is moving on with her life, and that is something that I am thrilled to see. She is refusing to be a victim, and is instead claiming ownership over herself and her life. Good for her. I hope when she becomes a goddess, she gets a nice planet like earth to rule over, and not some frozen chunk of ice like Pluto.

-- Sites that I visited while considering these things:

Elizabeth Smart's testimony in BDM's competency hearing http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2009-10/49605279.pdf

BDM's sentencing hearing http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=15696692

Elizabeth Smart's testimony part 1 http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50632966-76/smart-viti-yes-elizabeth.html.csp

part 2 http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50639245-76/smart-viti-yes-cable.html.csp

part 3 http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50647494-76/elizabeth-mitchell-smart-viti.html.csp

Wanda Barzee's testimony in BDM trial http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50704089-76/steele-barzee-mcknight-mitchell.html.csp

http://exmormon.org/ and http://www.exmormon.org/phorum/

Lifting the Veil of Polygamy - Documentary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-iIOWOblW0

The Bible vs The Book of Mormon - Documentary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTtq62XQ4jw&feature=relmfu

Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer

[Terry Mross]

I’ll always believe it is part of the official doctrine that is not enforced. In other words, if you want to be a pervert it’s perfectly okay. But if you don’t want to be a pervert that’s okay, too.

As for Jeffs, not only is he twisted, he’s also a murderer from what the Lost Boys have said.

[caww]

many LDS women are too scared of their ‘priesthood holding’ husbands to fight back. I also know some men who hold the ‘Resurrection’ over their wives as in “if you don’t do what I tell you, or if you tell, I won’t call you forth from the grave”

Religious blackmail and abuse seems to be the unspoken law of Mormonism for the men...and this with the unspoken law of approval by it's male leadership.

[repub4ever1]

I am talking about now, not long time ago. Try visiting Pakistan now and try coming back alive as a Christian. On the other hand, no Mormon has ever tried to convert me with threat of beheading me if I refuse.

[repub4ever1]

You need to travel around the world a little more. I have visited 27 countries. How many have you visited?

[repub4ever1]

Do you know of any actual cases in the last century of individuals being threatened with violence if they do not convert to Mormonism?

I can name hundreds of thousands of such examples for some other religion. Again my point of view is about the modern era, going back 100 years or so.

[reaganaut]

You need to travel around the world a little more. I have visited 27 countries. How many have you visited?

- - - - -
Wisdom doesn’t come from travel.

But since you asked, 42, including several Arab countries and I lived in Europe as a child. I have also been to all 50 states and all provinces of Candada.

Travel doesn’t change either the statement by Christ or my assertion about the LDS being a threat spiritually.

Next...

[Tennessee Nana]

no Mormon has ever tried to convert me with threat of beheading me if I refuse.
________________________________________

The folks in Circleville werent so lucky

[Tennessee Nana]

Try visiting Pakistan
_____________________________________

Ive never had any desire to visit Pakistan

[Tennessee Nana]

You need to travel around the world a little more.

_____________________________________________

Therein is your problem with foreigners in their native lands...

Your attitude towards them

"Occasionally, merely for the pleasure of being cruel, we put unoffending Frenchmen on the rack with questions framed in the incomprehensible jargon of their native language, and while they writhed, we impaled them, we peppered them, we scarified them, with their own vile verbs and participles."

Mark Twain, Innocents Abroad

[reaganaut]

Religious blackmail and abuse is rampant in Mormonism and it stems from their doctrine of priesthood.

[Tennessee Nana]

Again my point of view is about the modern era, going back 100 years or so.
_____________________________________

So is mine

Until 1990 (Just 20 years ago) the Mormon ceremonies in their temples included blood oaths dating back to the 1840s when they swore to avenge the death of Joey Smith by murdering every Christian they could and declaring war on the government of the United States..

The gesture of a hand drawn quickly across their throat was not a promise in vain

The oaths were blood oaths and carried a penalty of death if violated..

The Mormon doctrines include passages about blood letting to “save” people..

The blood of the sinner had to be shed in order to “atone” him or her for their sins..

[Tennessee Nana]

Again my point of view is about the modern era, going back 100 years or so.
_____________________________________

BTW my view about God goes back thousands of years...

[caww]

.(..abuse, religious blackmail).... it stems from their doctrine of priesthood.

Is seems other faiths also have big trouble with their 'Priesthood' as well. Certainly understandable why Christ ended the Priesthood by fulfilling all the requirements Himself and now our only great and High Priest.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Bubonic Mormonism Placemarker

[repub4ever1]

We have different experiences then,,,,I have worked with many LDS people, and many ring my house bell, and I found every one without exception to be gentle, mannerly, well dressed, polite and friendly. I can’t say the same thing about some Christian Hillbillies who are just the opposite of above.

[Tennessee Nana]

I found every one without exception of door-to-door salesmen to be gentle, mannerly, well dressed, polite and friendly too but I still didnt buy what they were selling..

It was still a front..

[daniel1212]

No, and even back when it was a theocracy that was not the case as far as i know, but but neither was the Inquisition supposed to force conversion. But as for Mormons believing in forcing their laws on every one else, what happened back then it relevant, because that is the direction they were heading in. Like Islam, the words or violence were in the context of rebelling persecutors, but which can easily be taken as any repression of the faith, (when Smith became the target in a secular newspaper, he even ordered the destruction of the press). This direction was halted due to opposition by the Gov.

That is what really prevents that, as well as polygamy, etc., and having a supreme autocratic authority means that what the Bible or anyone else says need not prevent a theocracy and its use of the sword of men.

[caww]

It seems to me Daniel, that when any church organization threatens the overall health of it’s citizens then the Gov. has the God given right to step in....for are they not also established by God?

I realize that Governments abuse this but it’s also there for the protection and safety of the people.

[x]

You got me thinking, too ....

... what's up with you?

[daniel1212]

If souls will not be ruled from within then they will have to be ruled from without. Of course, what moral standard to which such must conform to is the foundational issue in this regard.

But as in America, when the church, which is to be the one that sets the moral standard in conformity with Scripture, fails to do so and to correct in a timely manner those who err, then the State will have justification to intercede, which is in accordance with Scripture. (1Pt. 2:13,14)

But this is a case in which the State should not have too, but insofar as the salt has lost its effect, then it loses its sanctifying power.

Then, as the government itself must be governed, when it fails to uphold the general morality of Scripture, due to the declension of the church or by outright rejecting it, and tends to take on a power of Deity, then it will use the real or contrived failure of the church as a pretense to enter its affairs more easily, to standing in a place where it ought not, and to subjugate it, in order that the State may be all and all, and not God.

It is happening. “But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer. “ (1 Peter 4:7)