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Posted on 04/27/2011 8:55:45 PM PDT by Hillary'sMoralVoid
The Obama Birth Certificate presents far more questions than answers:
First of all, it is not a source document or even a direct copy of a source document. It is an electronic document (PDF) seemingly derived from an OCR process that treats some portions of the document as images and some as characters. At best, it is a second generation document that emulates the original but is not an exact copy. Because of this, one cannot ascertain whether the variations between the original and the OCR-derived document distort the data, either intentionally or unintentionally. At worst, it is a forgery.
Secondly, it is incomprehensible why anyone would take a source document and convert it into an electronic document through a process that creates a hybrid of characters and images, unless there was a desire to tamper with those images and characters. To allow such a document to be published in this manner just begs for deeper scrutiny.
Third, to publish the document with the layers of the images and characters still intact further compromises the credibility of the document. This publishing job has been described as "amateurish", not a term anyone would want to use to describe what should be incontrovertable proof of one's birth. In the format it was presented, it offers present-day sleuths to peel back the layers and perform forensic analysis.
Finally, to present this image of an original 1961 document over a present-day computer-generated background is perplexing, and certainly detracts from the fidelity with the original that the document should possess.
A simple image file can certainly be photo-shopped, but a certified image would present a more accurate and professional means of communicating the content of what is supposedly in the files in Honolulu.
This document reminds me of an old Buick in Cuba that still sorta looks like a Buick, but doesn't have many original parts, but is loaded down with excessive paraphenalia that only detracts from it's original appearance.
The question that lingers in the case of the Obama Birth Certificate is "Why?".
There are two or three excellent video demonstration deconstruction of the Obama document. Karl Denningers’ video document is devestating and explained with exquisit simplicity. The visual he demonstrates make it easy for nontechnical viewers to quickly understand the fraud. Others are out there too. We can piss, and bitch, and moan until the cows come home, but unless Trump gets this put up front via his manipulation of the media, this information will not be publicized widely.
There are two or three excellent video demonstration deconstruction of the Obama document. Karl Denningers’ video document is devestating and explained with exquisit simplicity. The visual he demonstrates make it easy for nontechnical viewers to quickly understand the fraud. Others are out there too. We can piss, and bitch, and moan until the cows come home, but unless Trump gets this put up front via his manipulation of the media, this information will not be publicized widely.
“We won and the rascal had to cough it up.”
Exactly. Smile and call it victory. Move on to the next “Where’s the ... ???” question. It would be far better to do as Trump did and declare victory, then to waste time looking for ‘flaws’ in a document that is 100% guaranteed to be legit.
How do we know it’s legit? He released correspondence with the hawaii DOH on the matter, sent his lawyer personally there. Its sealed with Hawaii DOH registrar’s stamp. The President doesn’t go have a press conference to pass off a forgery and if you think he does you really are nuts. It’s real and he was born in Honolulu.
I fight a lot with the Obotski and one thing they always say is that we wouldn’t believe anything he coughed up anyway. Which I disagree with. But now, Karl Denninger, who is not a Birther, says the long form is computer generated. Plus, he is a honest person.
I am just going to hold off saying that until more people have had a chance to look at it.
“QUESTION: Why would Obama hold back this document for over 2 years? There were many law suits and a lot of money was spent. Moreover, there are military personal in prison over this?”
Better question: Why are birthers wasting their time, money, energy and effort on a false set of claims? Why incite a guy to languish in prison when in fact Hawaii officials 2 years ago stated that Obama’s records are on file and show him born in Honolulu, just like yesterday’s release confirmed? It’s fine to want proof, but waste all that effort to find out what is already known?
“I am having a real difficult time believing that you printed the document, scanned it and that you are still getting all the layers? I’m sorry, but I don’t believe that.”
You’re problem then. It’s been done, it can be done, it was done that way.
“I’m sorry, but I’m just not going to take your word for it.”
you’re problem, not mine.
“At any rate, how come the document assembles perfectly piece by piece”
Duh, because that’s how PDF works.
“.... I’m sorry but that is the smoking gun.”
It’s nothing. Just because some computer was used to get the document up on their website, just because YOU havent done it that way, doesnt mean it cant or wasnt done that way. its as if you are begging to please find something wrong with this rather than using common sense.
“has a picture of a different physical copy”
“Question: Who gave the AP their copy and why did it not come from the White House?”
It did come from the White House. The White House got 2 physical copies from the Hawaii DOH. They scanned one to show on the webiste and they made B&W handouts, either from the same physical copy or a different one.
“the AP is using a completely different process.”
“Question: Okay what process are they using that will allow no layers?”
They created a jpg not a PDF. picture of the B&W handout.
“Follow Up Question: Okay so you mean to tell me that the AP got their “copy” of the long form Birch Certificate from some where other than the White House?”
Again, NO. AP was given their copy like all the other journalists, from the White House.
“Question: Why were they allowed this and can you prove this?”
Please read the news reports. They state that AP and others at the press conference got handout copies of the long-form Birth Certificate.
“Question: If the AP got it from the White House, then how come their copy does not have layers, but the White House and your copy does?”
Because its a jpg and not a PDF.
“I’m just not buying what the public is being told. Every radar is going off saying it’s bogus. “
Fix your radar. It’s real. He was born in Honolulu, and this latest release is just one part of the evidence to prove it. Case closed.
I believe we will eventually be able to prove that neither of these documents was actually from the HDOH. What was sent by the HDOH may have been used to create these documents, however.
If you possibly have time, please start at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2711803/posts?page=27#27 and read on through. I believe they are totally botching up an attempt to mesh all the lies told over the last 30 years. They’re bombarding us with false documents in the hopes that we can’t debunk them before the public accepts them at face value.
Post 68 on that thread has a very, very important question I can use all the help I can get to answer. I need to pull myself away from this but hopefully somebody else can help me figure something out.
The docs scream "fake." But they also scream,"take me to court." The docs, genuine or not, show that Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. is now and forever more, the official father.
That makes it harder for the courts to dismiss inquiries into "Natural Born Citizenship." It also gives any state AG who is temperamentally equipped, the wherewithal to honestly say, "I don't believe this fellow is constitutionally qualified as a Presidential Candidate. Why, it's says right here his Father is from Kenya. Was that Kenyan ever naturalized? Until we find out Obama isn't going on my ballot."
Personally I am confused as to how this document could show up without question, when just a few short week ago Governor Abercrombie loudly proclaimed there wasn't one. WTF was that about? It doesn't merit mention in the MSM?
The trap, if there is one (and not just sloppy scanning of the real hawaii DOH at the White House), is that the Obama WH released their scan on their website and B&W photocopies to press, and not the originals that they have. Any birther who claims forgery on these copies and scans will be debunked and discredited - at the place and time of the choosing of the Obama camp - when the Obama camp releases the real physical documents that were the basis of these releases.
The document is real and legit, and doubting that is folly.
How about "It's possible that the document is folly. Doubting it is definitely an even worse folly?"
Your logical error is inventing a process ‘hey it must have happened this way’ and then confabulating a contradiction.
The Aug 8 date for Obama was date filed, not date accepted. Nordyke had date accepted, they were both done on Aug 11th.
There is no contradiction. People have explained how it could easily have been done in the office. A different person signed off on the Obama certificate vs the Nordyke one; the order in which something is filed is not nessarily the birth order, it might be alphabetical, or ‘top of the stack of a bunch of applications’ order. That’s how its done.
SERIOUSLY ... you are looking in the WRONG place and asking the WRONG question. Barack Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii and has the documentation to prove it. And now there is yet *another* peice of evidence, on top of newspaper announcements, COLB, this certificate and official records and statements:
Obama’s birth certificate number is real, valid and legit.
The real issues and questions surround other things about his home life.
You may want to check that AP copy agin.....it's a pdf as well. It's just not the same pdf.
Source? Every one of the AP Birth Certificate doc screenshots that I’ve seen out there is a Jpg. I linked to one of them.
Source?
The doc itself. I downloaded it yesterday from an AP link here on FR.
It’s a pdf.
http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/ap_obama_certificate_dm_110427.pdf
Nope, at this point you have a pile of evidence saying he was born in Honolulu...
You even now have a document written in Aug 1961 confirming it indepedently: An INS internal report.
Add to that the newspaper announcements:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/obama-1961-birth-announcement-from-honolulu-advertiser0000.gif
Now, what is interesting is that the newspaper announcements are lined up exactly with what you’d get if you took the Hawaii Dept of Health birth record and turned it into a birth announcement.
All this, plus prior data was enough to ALREADY conclude that Obama was born in Honolulu. All the long form Birth Certificate did was CONFIRM the details. Claiming that the document is forgery would REQUIRE you to assume a massive conspriacy and tear down all this other clear and valid information as well.
So let’s go through the logical sequence of what the newspaper announcement DOES tell us and why it’s highly dispositive to Obama being born in Honolulu:
1) The Newspaper announcements prove that someone either phoned in a birth announcement or it was gotten from DOH records.
2) The practice and the format and the category of the birth announcements, and the fact that 2 newspapers had similar lists in exact same order, indicate that in fact these announcements were derived from DOH records.
3) This indicates that DOH indeed *had* records on Obama’s birth.
4) Confirming this, we know DOH has Obama’s records on file today.
This information is public:
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html
Birth Index
Obama II, Barack Hussein
Male
5) WE FURTHER KNOW A VERY IMPORTANT POINT - those records were submitted/filed/accepted between Aug 4th and Aug 13th, the newspaper publication date, so the Obama birth records were created during that week.
6) I would submit to you that #5, #3 and #4 are the MOST IMPORTANT POINTS. You can try to fake something in your past, but you cant go back into your past to do it. Obama has had Hawaii birth records since August 13th (or before) 1961. Key!
6) So, then we consider the COLB - it has a filing date of Aug 8th, consistent with #5.
7) On the COLB the birth cert # for Obama is close to Nodyke twins coming from Kapiolani on same day. This tells us that at least its not some randomly wrong number. But it also is a strong indicator that Obama was born in Kapiolani as well, as his form was either in a similar or same batch or processed at similar time, which would happen with forms from same hospital.
8) The COLB information is not inconsistent with the newspaper announcement information (despite the false disputing of his parents’ marriage)
9) In order to get a DOH record, if you just walk it in, you will need the corroborating evidence, which the original birth certificate and information from the birthing doctor or midwife. Such forms would have to brought in to their office. Both #7 and the timeline is why a birth outside Honolulu is practically impossible. You’d have to fly the mother, the baby, and the original birth certificate to the DOH by August 13th at the latest, in order to get the DOH records. Why would a newborn son have to travel with their mother and risk sickness from a flight halfway across the pacific, just to get a DOH record in time for a pro forma tiny birth announcement? They wouldnt. They couldnt. They’d wait and do it later.
10) There might be a theoretical possibility of a midwife home delivery in Honolulu and then a walkup submission of birth certificate, but then that fact would have been the family recollection; rather the family story is that Barack Obama was born at Kapiolani. Again, any such submission would not have been done as quickly as with a hospital; there’s no rush. Moreover, he’d still be born in Honolulu. For any non-hospital delivery outside of hawaii, phew, #9 plus the problem of getting the right paperwork to get state records.
Start at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2711803/posts?page=27#27 and read on through. There are problems with what that reporter claimed that didn’t match what was in the documents, and the documents themselves showed discrepancy - as well as the whole rationale being used to try to piece together all the lies over the last 30 years into a cohesive story that fits the evidence we have so far.
I don’t have time to go over it all again but encourage you to read the thread.
Regarding the numbering, if you want to call Okubo a liar, fine. Maybe she is. I don’t know. But I know that if what she said is true, the “date filed” was the day that the number was given and there is a big discrepancy with Obama’s “date filed” and BC# that can’t be explained by anything you’ve suggested.
If she’s lying that also creates a problem. No matter how you slice it there is reason for investigation - which is all I’m saying. We don’t know squat about what is genuine and what isn’t until we see those transaction logs.
You say it doesn’t matter; I say the rule of law always matters, and I don’t appreciate the whole system lying to me.
Start at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2711803/posts?page=27#27 and read on through. There are problems with what that reporter claimed that didn’t match what was in the documents, and the documents themselves showed discrepancy - as well as the whole rationale being used to try to piece together all the lies over the last 30 years into a cohesive story that fits the evidence we have so far.
I don’t have time to go over it all again but encourage you to read the thread.
Regarding the numbering, if you want to call Okubo a liar, fine. Maybe she is. I don’t know. But I know that if what she said is true, the “date filed” was the day that the number was given and there is a big discrepancy with Obama’s “date filed” and BC# that can’t be explained by anything you’ve suggested.
If she’s lying that also creates a problem. No matter how you slice it there is reason for investigation - which is all I’m saying. We don’t know squat about what is genuine and what isn’t until we see those transaction logs.
You say it doesn’t matter; I say the rule of law always matters, and I don’t appreciate the whole system lying to me.
Important: save and read later.
OK, thanks. Where I was looking it was a jpeg, eg,
http://a.abcnews.com/images/Politics/ap_barack_obama_birth_certificate_dm_110427_wg.jpg
As the markings in the PDF indicate, the PDF from AP was created with the Adobe Acrobat image converter plug-in. This likely was just a jpeg to PDF conversion, perhaps by taking a picture of the document with a digital camera/cellphone camera.
This was a different tool than used on the green background PDF, which use Mac OSX based tool that took the image scanner.
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