Tokyo Electric admits fuel could be melting at Fukushima nuke plant

You are quite welcome, redshawk.

TEPCO has said that it will not use the Soviet/Chernobyl technique of burying the reactor in concrete.
Re the Soviet approach to meltdown: (I found a 40 minute (4 part) YOU TUBE video series by Nova titled “Inside Chernobyl’s Sarcophagus” interesting - it walked through the design of the lead ‘Sarcophagus’ and filmed some pretty astonishing scientists studying what happened to the fuel after the melt down, and problems they continue to face. Here’s a link if you’re interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KeSXMTzt6M&feature=related)

Some posts I’ve read say that the Japanese can’t dump concrete on Fukushima reactors while they are hot anyway. The company proposes to wait while the fuel cools down and then invent the means of removing the fuel. It proposes to complete the work in 10 to 12 years. It’s hard to conceive of what the Japanese face clearing the tsunami rubble - all those homes, factories, schools, lives etc. So the complexity of the nuclear cleanup adds even more to their recovery. I keep them in my prayers.

YIKES! Read his reply to a UPI article yesterday:

This website, as most on the web on this topic at the sub-academic and non-A-list academic levels, is U.S. military/CIA/Nuclear industry disinformation—blatent minimization and lies.

It is describing the Fukushima and Japanese nuclear cataclysm as a “was”, as in, “in the past”. It has not even really begun yet. There have been full nuclear meltdowns, as a matter of scientific fact, at reactors one, two and three. There have been partial meltdowns of far more radioactive (1,000,000x more) “spent fuel” in all the pools in bldgs. 1-4 and perhaps in reactor 5.

Who knows how much fuel melted in the common spent fuel pool while it was unrefrigerated. It itself stores about 6000 TONS of so-called spent fuel. Remember that only 50 tons of Uranium dioxide, reactor fuel, enriched for power generation criticality, not acidental criticality, that quickly went “accidentally critical” and exploded (either a steam explosion or some other sort of sub-nuclear explosion that distributed a lot of burnt graphite—despite revisionist history on the particulate matter that spread strontium-90 and cesium actinides essentially all over nearly all of Europe.

At Fukushima Dai ichi, there are a total of 7000 TONS (more than 160x Chernobyl) involved in the far less well contained (it hasn’t exploded yet, or has it here and there?—MOX fuel in reactor 3?) circumstances, in equally poorly designed General Electric (MSNBC/NBC, etc.) nuclear plant bldgs, just in different ways. Remember that it takes 7 years to cool “spent fuel” under the best of circumstances. This is NO was; this is no past tense event.

Wake up people. GE is enmeshed with the media and the nuclear power industry and the military, simultaneously. How much information do you really think we’re going to get in the U.S., which in addition has the largest number of nuclear power reactors on the planet, at 104, with France at 59 and, idiotically, Japan has 55 is number 3. Japan’s nuclear reactors sit on four, not just two, but FOUR separate, very active, tectonic plates and most are on or near very active mega-thrust faults. Absolutely brilliant!

Please study, if you don’t believe me that this site and nearly 99% of any site you find on this topic that’s not A-list or A-level academic peer-reviewed material, the incident of 2007 to the present at Kashiwazaki Kariwa on the other side of Honshu, same latitude.

Cheers!!! If you’re in the U.S., I wouldn’t be drinking any tapwater where rain can hit it, or drinking any milk or any California, Oregan, Washington, British Columbia, or any northern 50% of the U.S. agricultural product of any kind that’s been rained on since about March 15.

At this point, I could believe almost anything about Obama’s Most Favored Corporation, GE!

I looked up the Kashiwazaki Kariwa reactor issue of 2007 that the UPI poster mentioned. NYTimes article says that 6.4 earthquaked caused deaths and destruction to residents and damaged the plant (minor radiation leaks...) etc. because the quake exceeded the design expectations of the plant by a factor of two. While nuke experts praised to plant for moving all reactors to safe shutdown under the conditions....SOME WONDERED HOW THE BUILDERS FAILED TO NOTE THAT THEY WERE BUILDING THE PLANT DIRECTLY ON TOP OF A SEISMIC FAULT LINE and SOME PEOPLE WORRIED ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF OTHER JAPANESE PLANTS HAVING BEEN BUILT ON OR NEAR SEISMIC FAULT LINES.

Not even close, Redhawk !!

FWIW, the same generation/era reactor suffered a serious “meltdown” at Three Mile Island, PA. NO ONE DIED ! ;) (Certainly much safer than a late night drive with a certain Senator, which happened at the same time.)

Reports/events at Fukishima indicate to me the problem, while serious, isn’t anywhere near on the scale as TMI. What TECO faces is extensive cleanup to reduce exposure rates permitting serious remedial work to be undertaken.

FWIW, from many hours practical experience and countless “rad schools” is the “rate” thats important. Time, distance and shielding are the mantra controlling it. (Think of most nucleonic radiation like light - it obeys the laws of “inverse squares”. >PS

So long as you keep in mind my “knowledge” of this sort of thing is what any “hairy-knuckled” company tech rep has to pick up to do their job........

From my, (admittedly spotty/old/basic) understanding of LW reactors rod exposure doesn’t pose a “greater danger” so long as they are below the cladding’s melt/burn point. Exposure attenuates the slow neutron reacton. Indeed, one cooling solution might just be to inject/spray liquid CO2 on the exposed rods - provided the thermal shock won’t create more problems.

What TECO really needs is to get access to the containment and circ/cooling pumps/valving. With this they could control residual heat via the condensors without any serious environmental penality.

I think whats hard for many - even those in the industry - is the massive amounts of residual heat that has to be dealt with after “scramming” one of these units. >PS

Good points, but it is official now that melting of fuel has occurred. The Japanese officially admitted that on Monday. And with more aftershocks coming, we are way beyond TMI. In fact we have 3 TMI events along with an entire reactor core in #4 laying in a pool of water exposed to the atmosphere. And you wont believe the latest bad news about number 4. The spent fuel pools structural integrity is now questioned and they are backing off on the amount of water they have been dumping into the pool.

Piper, does this mean that the land surrounding the plant is really bad and cannot be farmed or lived in for many years to come? What about fishing?

Dang, to me, not understanding the science mind you, it seems that the Fukushima area will be radioactive for a generation or more.

I pray for the folks there.

The answer to your questions, (at least to the extent of my limited knowledge and training), is indeterminate at this time.

All radioactives have a “half-life”. It can, depending upon the element, span from nano-seconds to thousands of years. They can also be relatively inert, or easily taken up by plants or migrate to other locales as dust. Right now you can walk out to “ground zero” for the Trinity, NM test site without harm/risk, but I suspect digging in that area would involved increased dose rate.

Since this “accident” did not involve any “fusion explosion” I suspect the contaminants are mostly light elements carried by smoke/steam having shorter half-lives. Its what I’ve heard described as “tramp”, because it moved about so easily. (FWIW, the “housecleanliness” of a well-run nuke would make the fussiest housekeeper blush as dust control is exposure control too.)

Depending upon the element(s) and contaminants dispersed, they will likely find their way into the biosphere. But the key fact to keep in mind is the dose rate and type of exposure to individuals. Clothing/skin exposure is minimally threatening. Internal exposure via ingestion or inhalation may be more serious. Indeed there’s a school of thought contending radiation exposure has beneficial health effects as it stimulates the immune system. Its known many of us receive much higher “doses” and “dose rates” than others depending upon where we live, our occupations, even the construction/materials in our homes. I’d opine our ancestors received far more “dose”, due to extended periods outdoors in sunlight, than many do today. >PS

Thanks PiperShade for you explainations. I suspect that you are a scientist mega brain.

I've been reading up on ‘fusion explosions’, as you have mentioned before. Unfortunately, comprehending it is proving difficult for me.

I have a general understanding of ‘half life’, and such for radioactives, however, I worry about the folks living there. I've met with many survivors of the the Hiroshima bomb. War and politics aside, the survivors tear at my heart.

Thanks for the help PiperShade.

No, just a hairy-knuckled pump mechanic that needed to learn some aspects of nuke operations in order to keep his job !! >PS

I like you ‘you hairy-knuckled pump mechanic’ you!

I still think you're dang smart. No matter what Pelosi says.

No kidding. Extreme Duh moment. These guys are amateurs at best. They started believing their own press and are not equipped to deal with a real crisis.