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New Disc Gas Engine Looks to Challenge Traditional Diesel, Gas ICEs
Daily Tech ^ | April 7, 2011 4:17 PM | Jason Mick (Blog)

Posted on 04/09/2011 9:11:38 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach

Engine will likely offer in excess of 100 mpg


An artist's render shows the overall design of the Wave Disc Generator (Source: MSU/Norbert Mueller)

Michigan State University (MSU) mechanical engineering associate professor Norbert Mueller [profile] has invented an engine quite unlike those that the world is familiar with today.  It has no transmission.  It ditches the piston, valves, and crankshaft.  It doesn't need to use cooling liquids.

Meet the Wave Disc Generator [video], the engine that could be the death of traditional gas and diesel internal combustion engines (ICEs).

When people claim to have a novel alternative to the ICE, they're typically peddling snake oil investments.  But Dr. Mueller has carefully documented his progress and is offering a true ICE replacement.  In short, he's turned what's typically a fantasy into reality.


The Wave Disc Generator starts with a rotor that feeds fuel into channels in the disc.  As the rotor spins, it naturally mixes the fuel with oxygen in the air.  The rotor also blocks the channels as it cycles.  This creates a buildup in pressure within the channel chamber, which creates a shock wave capable of igniting the fuel.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailytech.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Travel
KEYWORDS: gasengines; gogreengowhite; hitech; michigan; michiganstate; spartans
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To: mylife

“What about the Sterling Engine?”

The Sterling Engine - by definition - is an external combustion engine. The advantage - and about the only one - is that any fuel can be used, whereas for INTERNAL combustion, the range of fuels is more limited.

Since there is the heat conduction issue - from external combustor to the working fluid - the power per unit weight/volume is low. The internal combustion engine does not have this heat transfer issue and therefore more powerful than the Sterling Engine. In the past 30-40 years, there has been some experimental sterling-engine cars built but their performance were lacking.

There are some persistent Sterling Engine groupies around and I am amused.

The new disc gas engine combines the compression stage typical of a conventional gas turbine with the combustion/expansion stage of a rocket engine.

I do not see the new disc engine being that much efficient than the conventional gas turbine.

There are 2 goals in engine design: efficiency and power. The greater the power (work per unit time), the less energy efficient; and vice versa.


21 posted on 04/09/2011 9:54:06 AM PDT by barracuda1412
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To: barracuda1412

I only mentioned it because people keep trying to reinvent the wheel LoL

I think there is a reason we have been using gas and diesel all these years.

It is the most efficient design we have


22 posted on 04/09/2011 9:59:26 AM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: All
"The Begely"
23 posted on 04/09/2011 10:01:05 AM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

A rotary diesel of sorts?


24 posted on 04/09/2011 10:03:02 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Wow, another one of these disc engines.

There is another company already selling scaled down versions of a disc engine that they want to launch, so they are pretty far behind.

The other engine design though, didn’t have as much torque but they said it was going to be hooked to a generator to continuously charge a battery and run a motor. The idea was to design an engine that could run at a constant speed with a reliability of years of continuous use.

Think of it as an optimized engine for Volt type cars with backup generator on board.


25 posted on 04/09/2011 10:05:03 AM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813

Yup. They are OK for running APU’s


26 posted on 04/09/2011 10:06:32 AM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: SunkenCiv

>> “Decades ago, there were a couple of diesel engine designs which never caught on, both were bent in the center...” <<

.
A similar design has been used for 40 myears as a hydraulic rotary servo for heavy equipment.


27 posted on 04/09/2011 10:08:12 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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To: iontheball
I'll bet your statement on low torque is right on the spot. I am dubious of whirling wheels being able to cut it when you need real lugging power like you get from a slow burn, long stroke diesel engine. If the only torque you get comes from high rpm, you will need a fluid slip transmission system which will greatly reduce the efficiency.

From the video, the concept seems to be that the engine drives a generator. Generator plus battery powers electric motors on the wheels.

28 posted on 04/09/2011 10:08:28 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 ("It is only when we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything" -- Fight Club)
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To: mylife

Tasting much sweeter than wine...


29 posted on 04/09/2011 10:09:59 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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To: mylife

That’s right, they said APUs.

Maybe you saw it too. Real fuel efficient too.

I guess the process of balancing the load with the generator is pretty sensitive though, because the engine mfg didn’t have that skill. They are just trying to sell it to other people to integrate it.


30 posted on 04/09/2011 10:13:04 AM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813

Exceed the deliverable load and the generator shuts down

It’s ok for what it is, but we want power on demand.


31 posted on 04/09/2011 10:16:14 AM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: WellyP

Well, to tell you truth I don’t know much about a make or break engine, never having observed one in the wild so to speak:). Thanks for the info, and interesting page. Those pioneers in the internal combustion field were quite the guys. Imagine the work involved in building even a one cylinder engine when all you had to work with was a black smith shop.


32 posted on 04/09/2011 10:17:51 AM PDT by calex59
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Wonder if he was doing it on the fly or had lots of grant money.


33 posted on 04/09/2011 10:18:38 AM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned....Duncan Hunter Sr. for POTUS.)
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To: mylife

and you make it too low an the efficiency sucks.

tricky stuff


34 posted on 04/09/2011 10:18:52 AM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813

Balancing act


35 posted on 04/09/2011 10:23:55 AM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: bigbob; Ernest_at_the_Beach
"I’ll stay tuned."

Thanks for keeping me "tuned" Ernest!

Seems like with one of these driving each wheel that it would eliminate such a heavy drive train from current vehicles that it could be super. Especially coupled with high torque electrick motors for short heavy pulls and intial bursts off the starting line.

Of course those electic motors would require heavy batteries so there goes your advantage, right out the old ICE exhaust pipe!!!

We're never gonna improve on the gasoline/diesel powered ICE based on all things being considered!!!

36 posted on 04/09/2011 10:47:01 AM PDT by SierraWasp (I love the Governors of AZ, WI, NJ, LA, OH, SC, MS and ME!!!)
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To: prisoner6
Bet there's very little torque. Might make a decent fixed speed engine for a generator.

The Professor in the video claims the engine is for an electric hybrid car and produces a constant 25KW of electricity. He discussed having some batteries with regenerative braking. Their main claim is they created an electric generator that is more efficient and very lightweight.

There might be something to it. I will only become a believer in electric hybrids when each wheel has an independent electric motor for all wheel drive on demand (including regenerative breaking). I have my reasons for this design over others.

The Professor says three years, but did not show a working prototype. I am not holding my breath.
37 posted on 04/09/2011 11:00:54 AM PDT by PA Engineer (Time to beat the swords of government tyranny into the plowshares of freedom.)
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To: PA Engineer
Totally agree. I wonder if it can work with other fuel...say propane or Nat Gas?

That would be more applicable to a stationary generator but if the fuel efficiency is enough perhaps small tanks of propane could power a >small< commuter car.

38 posted on 04/09/2011 11:08:37 AM PDT by prisoner6 (Right Wing Nuts bolt The Constitution together as the loose screws of the Left fall out!)
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To: Jack Black
I had a 1973 RX-2 sedan. Even with an automatic it could smoke almost anything and still get me 25MPG highway on my weekly 100 mile drive. In town MPG was maybe 16. This was in the 70's.

Handling wasn't that great, but it was smooth and comfortable for a small car.

Then - as an older, wiser mechanic predicted - the engine blew at 65K. Mrs p6 had planned to take it on our honeymoon. Instead we were forced to use the "Gutless Wonder" a 1970 6 cly 2 door Torino.

I rebuilt the rotary myself but it wasn't as easy or fun as I expected. Getting the parts was a BIG problem despite Mazda.

By the time I got it finished the body started to rust badly and being newly married I threw in the towel. Besides we had the Gutless Wonder and a ...Pacer Wagon...sigh.

And in a year or so I bought a used 1971 base model Nova with a powerslop to replace the GW. It lasted a LONG time.

My autocross days were over.

39 posted on 04/09/2011 11:20:24 AM PDT by prisoner6 (Right Wing Nuts bolt The Constitution together as the loose screws of the Left fall out!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
RandCam Engine
40 posted on 04/09/2011 12:09:16 PM PDT by Axenolith (Government blows, and that which governs least, blows least...)
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