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I agree a 100% with what you said. I too have tried to “debate” these Vattel Freaks on what NBC is. Nothing works.

They worship Vattel as if he was some demi-God. Ask them where on the US Consitution, Declaration of Independence or any other amendment is Vattel mentioned? No answer. Instead they keep harping on Vattel.

These are the guys who drive me nuts. FR is by definition a “constitutional site”. Then go with the freaking constitution. Use OUR constitution. Use OUR case law. In fact about the only relevant case law on NBC was against a Chinese American and the court used the word “Natural Born” to define the Chinese American a natural born even though both his parents were foriegn born and not US citizens at his birth.

Now, Congress can and should explicitly define NBC. But till that day comes, Vattel can suck a sour one.

In fact about the only relevant case law on NBC was against a Chinese American and the court used the word “Natural Born” to define the Chinese American a natural born even though both his parents were foriegn born and not US citizens at his birth.

I've read the decision and unless I misunderstood something (quite possible) it never specifically said he was NBC, although it did say he was a citizen at birth. I believe citizen at birth = native born, making for two groups of citizens: native born/natural born/citizen at birth and naturalized. A subset of the birthers believes there are three categories: citizen at birth with a subset of these being natural born, and naturalized. I know of absolutely nothing in US case law that would point to this three category conclusion.

Interestingly, at the time his parents were not only not citizens, as Chinese they were ineligible to be naturalized. If I remember right, he also spent some considerable portion of his childhood in China.

One of the dissenters in the case said that ruling him to be a citizen would open the presidency to a "coolie." (The horror.) But I don't believe the ruling itself said any such thing.

Nowhere in Wong Kim Ark does Justice Gray refer to Ark as a natural born citizen. He says that Ark became at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States.

The U.S. Foreign Affairs manual says "the fact that someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute does not necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for Constitutional purposes."

The SCOTUS has not ruled definitely who is and is not a natural born citizen under the meaning of the Constitution.