Enhanced pat-downs and latex gloves - how often do screeners change them?"
TSA Groin Searches Menstruating Woman"
IMPERIAL CONTROL ==================================
Obama: TSA's Nude Screening a Necessary Inconvenience
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Posted on 11/29/2010 5:24:21 AM PST by MsLady
Why is it so many people obey when they feel coerced? Social psychologist Stanley Milgram researched the effect of authority on obedience. He concluded people obey either out of fear or out of a desire to appear cooperative--even when acting against their own better judgment and desires. Milgram’s classic yet controversial experiment illustrates people's reluctance to confront those who abuse power. It is my opinion that Milgram's book should be required reading (see References below) for anyone in supervisory or management positions.
If people were paying 10 dollars to fly, NO ONE would put up with this nonsense. But since they have large amounts of money and time wrapped up in these fares they refuse to disobey because it would cost them a fortune. There is a make-break point here in terms of dollars. Under that point everyone would refuse to be groped or x-rayed. Over that common sense takes over. They are not going to throw their money away just to prove a point.
It's as simple as that.
Enhanced pat-downs and latex gloves - how often do screeners change them?"
TSA Groin Searches Menstruating Woman"
IMPERIAL CONTROL ==================================
Obama: TSA's Nude Screening a Necessary Inconvenience
The Milgram Experiment, as disturbing as it was, is only part of the story. Further experiments have been conducted which give us cause to be encouraged. For example, the Sherman experiment, which was similar to Milgram, except that the subjects were given an opportunity in advance to reflect on the ethical dimensions of certain acts. When they were later asked to perform those acts, two thirds refused. Our TSA agents are more like Sherman’s people than Milgram’s, because the horridness of the molestations is being daily held before them; the moral recalibration of the Sherman process is occurring.
May I also suggest (as I did in that other thread) that we could enhance and accelerate the Sherman Effect if we could find individuals in or near the TSA organization and personally walk them through some moral reflection on their actions. It is right to fear where the moral gullibility of our friends and neighbors in the TSA could lead, but we are not the Weimar Republic. We have travelled a different path to get where we are now, we have much better resources, and a much better chance at mass public education to counteract the propaganda than they did. Contrary to the prediction of the Milgram Experment, this does not have to end badly.
“Look, it’s very simple. Airline tickets cost hundreds to thousands of dollars and most are not refundable”
The Milgram experiment is primarily relevant to the TSA employees.
This has nothing to do with Milgram’s experiments. If you don’t want to be fined, go to jail and miss your plane you comply.
Ask Milgram if he can explain why some people who work for the government love ordering other people around.
That gives me hope then.
I posted this about a week ago:
I saw a headline on Drudge and the new TSA checks were referred to as ‘sexual harrassment’.
It is actually a sexual ASSAULT.
It is also PEDOPHILIA AND CHILD MOLESTATION.
Also, the tsa workers remind me of the Milgram study in the 1970’s where students were instructed to shock fellow students that were wired up-even though they felt it was completely wrong and went against everything they believed. The students that did the shocking were compared to Germans who blindly followed Hilter and did what they were told.
“Ordinary people, simply doing their jobs, and without any particular hostility on their part, can become agents in a terrible destructive process. Moreover, even when the destructive effects of their work become patently clear, and they are asked to carry out actions incompatible with fundamental standards of morality, relatively few people have the resources needed to resist authority”
Milgram, Stanley. (1974), “The Perils of Obedience.” Harper’s Magazine. Abridged and adapted from Obedience to Authority.
I was thinking about the TSA people and wondered how they can practically molest people- men, women, children, cancer survivors with prosthetics and urostomy bags- without having any seeming remorse and remembered the Milgram study. This is that study in action, people. It is only going to get worse and involve more groups of people in authority.
Read post number 8. There was also another experiment done later on. Called the Simpson experiment. What this one did was let call the person up, ask them some questions. And then later on in person request they do what had been asked before. About 2/3rds refused. So knowledge is power. People need to be educated about what’s happening. Once aware of it, they are less likely to participate.
“..and a much better chance at mass public education to counteract the propaganda..”
Interesting comments.
The phrase above gave me pause though. I imagine some good debates could be held regarding the differences and similarities between “mass public education” and propaganda...
If I may translate your logic into it’s more direct meaning, you are saying if there’s something you have a right to do, like travel, but the government says you have to be coercively sexually molested to do it, then that’s all there is to it; pay no attention to the rapist, just do what he says and hope you get through it. Sorry, but that’s not good enough for me.
Milgram is all about the relationship of conscience to authority, and it definitely pertains to the TSA situation. What you did is actually confirm the reaction of one of the Milgram response groups. You are justifying TSA employee compliance with their chain of authority by shifting focus to the coercive incentives for the victims to show up and be punished for wanting to protect either their dna or their modesty, or both.
Whereas the Milgram data draws our attention to the psychology of the perpetrators of the sexual humiliation. Both factors are relevant. The original thread from which this discussion sprang had to do with a TSA agent who was having serious remorse about being under such foul, immoral orders. That represents an exploitable weakness in the regime and it should not be neglected, even when, or especially when, the victims of sexual molestation are being coerced into the situation.
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