Posted on 10/21/2010 8:09:47 PM PDT by Sybeck1
Today my 12 year old daughter was in class when a student came in and asked her if she would come into the hall to talk to the police. When she went into the hallway a police officer explained that she needed to go to the principal's office with him and she then asked if she was in trouble. He gave her no reply. He asked her if she wanted to walk by herself so she wouldn't be seen with him and she said, "No, I don't care." When she finally arrived at the principal's office across campus there were four other officers present along with the assistant principal. The assistant principal had a letter written which was threatening to kill a fifth grader who was at another school across town. It said, "I'm going to kill you." Signed "My daughter, 7th Grader." The 5th grader claimed that my daughter was threatening her with notes on the bus.
My daughter does not ride a bus. My wife is a teacher and we live in another city. She rides to school with my wife. My daughter knows the little girl's older sister from church, and to my knowledge the older sister of the accuser is my daughter's friend. She spent the night at our house once.
These police officers proceeded to question her several several minutes. The school never contacted us. The police officer told my daughter to be sure and tell her mother about it.
Then my daughter had to RUN back across campus, all the time crying and knowing that people saw her with a police officer, THE ONE THEY ALL KNOW RUNS THE BULLYING PROGRAM AT THE SCHOOL.
My son is in 8th grade and heard that his sister "was in trouble with the police." My daughter's reputation has been ruined by someone who simply does not like her. This person chose to try to get her in trouble for that reason and that reason only. Isn't that bullying in itself? Can my daughter be questioned without a parent present?
Pretty ham-handed action by the police. You need to press forward with a complaint if for no other reason than to protect the next child, assuming yours is in the clear. I’d also make it clear the position their unprofessionalism put your child in is unacceptable and you want to know what the administration plans to do to make it right.
In terms of getting an attorney, I suggest you go to HSLDA.org (Home School Legal Defense Association) They know school law inside in out.
Presumably you are not a member but they would be the best attorneys for you, experts in their field, and probably would be very interested in taking the case. You can just pay them like you’d pay any other attorney, since you aren’t a member and so aren’t entitled to free legal representation.
You need to make sure your daughter’s civil rights weren’t violated. I am not sure they weren’t. Also you need to make sure your daughter is protected.
The HSLDA has never lost a case that I know of. Their track record is amazing.
Yes, as one of the possibilities. Also if they needed to question the girl, they should have done it in her home, not at school if that would have been less humiliating.
“Now, why don’t you and your spouse sit down and ask yourselves why you want your children in public school?”
Cost, for most. Further, the same kind of farce plays out in private schools I can assure you. Homeschoolers can get similar grief from malicious enemies or officious busybodies or angry spouses.
Teach your kids to ask for their parents if they are accused or questioned about anything they are uncomfortable with. If the kid doesn’t cooperate without the parents present then it may diffuse the gung-ho interrogators. We were taught by our grandparents to always shut our yaps and ask to have our parents present if we were in trouble. My grandparents grew up in the early part of the last century and were use to abuses by those in authority - at work and at school. One thing you didn’t do was talk about family or family business with anyone who wasn’t family.
Been there. Lawyer up and explain to your daughter that the policeman is not your friend. Sad, but true.
“this is just sick
it would never have happened in a nice catholic school.”
Wrong. I have seen it.
Excellent advice (especially about the Home School Defense Lawyer!)
Another point Sybeck1. You need to document everything while it is fresh. Talk to your daughter again and ask her to walk through exactly what happened the best she can remember.
Do it in a calm atmosphere (Try not to show anger on your part and I know it would be hard. I am not involved at all and I am sitting here grinding my teeth in anger) walk her through it slowly. Start with who came to get her? Did the policeman come into the room she was in etc. Did the teacher announce to the class a policeman was there to get her. Who exactly questioned her? Was she allowed to sit while answering if so was she at a table or in a chair without anything in front of her? Did the police officers stand while she was questioned were they close to her or across the room. All of this may seem unimportant but it may very well be the difference between a legitimate inquiry to gather knowledge or an attempt on the part of some idiot bureaucrat to cover the school's or the Police Depts. backside.
Make it clear to your daughter not to embellish and try to remember as much detail as possible.
Write it down and try your best to keep it in chronological order.
And contact that Home School association Persevero mentioned for a lawyer ASAP! This may be a whole bunch of nothing or it might be a severe case of the School and the Police violating your daughter's civil rights. A good attorney can tell you which it is!
Yea, every bully knows they MUST sign their names to their threatening letters, especially the ones that mention the word murder. Sounds like the police just had to do their job, no matter how absurd the allegation was. However, I would want to know the outcome and who is held responsible for it and make sure everyone in the school knows it...
Yea, every bully knows they MUST sign their names to their threatening letters, especially the ones that mention the word murder. Sounds like the police just had to do their job, no matter how absurd the allegation was. However, I would want to know the outcome and who is held responsible for it and make sure everyone in the school knows it...
Re your post no. 84.
No, you can’t assure me of this.
My husband and I understand very well how good private schools and homeschooling operates.
We also understand the cost/sacrifices for sending children to private school and homeschooling.
Wholly concur with the advice of Persevero and Mad Dawgg.
Having seen a couple of similar incidents play out here though, the principal did not act with malice, if your about page reference to Mississippi is current.
Unfortunately for you, this WILL require some follow up if only to ensure that a paper trail exists which exhonerates your daughter. The provocateurs need some attitude adjustment as well.
Whether a child’s parent must be present during police questions depends upon state statue and legal rulings.
A more interesting issue is whether your daughter’s Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination and her Fourteen Amendment right to due process were violated.
The first question is whether there is “State Action”. Here she was being questioned by the police, who are state actors.
The second and more important question is whether your daughter was under custodial interrogation.
According to the facts, she was brought to an office and questioned by four police officer and a school offical about a alleged threatening letter.
I would argue that she was in custody since she clearly was deprived of her right to leave.
She was also under interrogation since the police and administrator were trying to elicit criminal evidence against her.
If your daughter was under custodial interrogation, the police must inform her of her “Miranda Rights”.
Failure to do so, would result in the suppression of any evidence gathered during the interrogation as “the fruits of the poisonous tree.” Also it is a civil rights violation.
Here there are unclear as to whether she was given her Miranda rights.
According to the Supreme Court, if a suspect can not clearly acknowledge that he understands these rights, all interrogation must stop.
It can be argued that a 12 year old can not be reasonably expected to clearly knowingly and intelligently acknowledge that he understands these rights.
If your daughter’s rights have been violated, you might consider bringing a suit against the police under 42 USC section 1983.
Sounds more like poor and lazy police work. Maybe they thought they were scaring your daughter into confessing or something. But a little easy investigating would have prevented the humiliation.
Not wanting to put down ALL cops because they are not all bad...but many of them are not exactly the sharpest tools in the shed. Many are not trained well, on power trips, or just not very smart. If I were you I would find out who the officer was that was in charge of this investigation and contact his superior and go up the chain that way until you get an answer on why they thought it was necessary to do what they did. If you arnt satisfied, talk to a lawyer or call your local media.
As for your rights as a parent...The laws vary by state, so its going to be tough for you to get the correct answers here as far as what right you have as a parent to be present. I know that where I live if a child was caught in the act of a crime (ie: shoplifting) the store can hold the child and the police and arrest the child without the parent being there. Now that is sort of a different situation. But it shows that the law may say that a parent might not have to be present.
I would do several things (I’m not a lawyer and don’t play one on TV!):
1) File a complaint with your local school board, followed by a lawsuit. The police and the school may have the RIGHT to question your daughter without one of her parents present, but they were ill-advised to do so. If she was not read her rights prior to being questioned (and, since she’s not an adult and may not understand her Miranda rights, she can’t agree to them or waive them), they violated her rights under the Constitution (particularly the 5th Amendment) since they would have arrested her had she been the one who actually wrote the letter. So, IMO, the same principle applies.
2) I would also have an attorney file a complaint with the PD’s Internal Affairs Division and with your District Attorney that the action taken by the officers violated your daughter’s civil rights and amounted to attempted coercion by intimidation.
3) I would file a separate lawsuit against the school principal for allowing this to occur without you being notified. They are charged with safeguarding your daughter from intimidation and bullying and they were active participants in intimidating and bullying your daughter.
4) Finally, I would immediately withdraw my daughter from the school and, if you can’t afford to send her to a private school, I would homeschool her. This is one more example of the abject failure of our public school system and why these people need to be canned.
“No, you can’t assure me of this.
My husband and I understand very well how good private schools and homeschooling operates.”
I have witnessed first hand the hard fact that neither religious private schools nor homeschooling are proof against malicious accusations. They do present *less* risk, but neither is an inviolate sanctuary. Nevertheless, enjoy the comforts of ignorance if you prefer.
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