[Pearls Before Swine]

I haven’t seen much that shows Islam to be a collectivist religion. There may be some aspects of it that are, but liberation is purely about the collective and not about the individual.

I hadn't thought about it that way. Come to think of it, the differences may be more rhetorical than real. The practical outcome of collectivist systems is the establishment of a strict ruling order, supposedly temporary on the way to a classless utopia. That ruling class, the apparatchiks in Russia, directs those below.

In Islam, the ruling class is theologically based, but in many ways the effect is the same. The higher up on the tree you are, the more powerful your fatwas, and the non-clerical have to abide by it. The courts, too, are ruled as much by whimsy and connection as by law, under both systems.

Both systems are totalitarian, with an emphasis on "total", ven though the narrative is different.

[Halfmanhalfamazing]

——————I hadn’t thought about it that way.-——————

I didn’t either until I really started to learn about liberation. Liberation is more marxist than anything, but it’s clothed in jesus and the bible.

—————Come to think of it, the differences may be more rhetorical than real. The practical outcome of collectivist systems is the establishment of a strict ruling order, supposedly temporary on the way to a classless utopia.————

Actually, I hadn’t thought about it that way. heh

The end outcome of all totalitarian and authoritarian constructs is that they rule you, you don’t rule you.

It’s the path, or the sophistry that’s totally different though.

-————In Islam, the ruling class is theologically based, but in many ways the effect is the same.——————

Right. But are they collectivist in nature; their teachings.

For the most part........... AFAIK not really.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

Actually, Islam is such a backwards religion that you end up reverting to a feudal system every single time. It creates perpetual turmoil — no governmental solution will ever be permanent.

We [Christians] went through a feudal phase in the Dark Ages. Uniting in the Crusades helped relieve pressure, but the only way out is through religious competition. Once the scriptures could be read in different languages, we were freed by the scriptures and competed. Our scriptures also lead to a very stable society [unless it is undermined by atheists]. Islam, however, requires submission and violence — violent conversion, tribute, and open contempt.

Its scripture was also founded on a single generation [like almost all religions], which weakens its credibility. Thus, strong men will always find a gang of rogue atheists [who only give the faintest lip service to Allah]. These brutes will continue to rise and fall in the Islamic landscape.