Posted on 07/21/2010 10:18:09 PM PDT by citizenredstater9271
I think this is something we all need to consider. Liberals and socialists like to talk about altruism and making everything "fair". I think not.
Are you trying to make a point? If so, what is it?
LOL says the person with an Ayn rand quote. “Altruism” is a false notion that’s my point.
LOL says the person with an Ayn rand quote. “Altruism” is a false notion that’s my point.
yes, and that’s exactly why we’ll never have a conservative government- one that will actually shrink government, eliminate perks for their constituents, or reduce their owns salaries and benefits. That’s as contrary to human nature as the altruistic underpinnings of marxist doctrine. Just won’t happen.
Many moons ago I wrote a thesis on this very subject. I agree that altruism, as commonly defined, is not truly possible. The trick is not to deny our own self interest but to understand that being moral, good to others, etc. is in our own self interest.
Then you’ve never met (or recognized), an altruist. Believe me, there are such people in the world. Many of them keep it quiet though, so it’s not like they’re advertising their works like a car dealer.
Sometimes you have to ferret them out. Look through some websites that catalog Form 990’s. It’s a good place to start.
Rand was wrong on this one, and I only know this from personal experience.
Altruism IS fake. That’s another reason socialism will never work. Even socialists and commies do everything out of their own self-interest.
Jesus is an altruist, is He not?
I watched the video five times. You only do things for others b/c it makes YOU feel good so yes everything you do whether its for others or not is all from YOUR self-interest. Capitalism is natural socialism and altruism are not.
So Jesus only humbled Himself to become a man, with all its accompanying humiliations and pain, withstood the contempt of His enemies, endured all temptations, and then suffered and died on the cross because it made Him feel good?
I am trying to decipher whether you see a difference between Him and other people. I see Him as the epitome of altruism.
From there I wonder if those who follow Him, enabled by the Holy Spirit, might be capable of altruism as well.
Jesus was the Son of God. We are talking about human beings here. Fact is humans are NOT altruistic and altruism is a fantasy concept with no basis in reality.
‘Liberals and socialists like to talk about altruism and making everything “fair”.’
If there’s anyone who believes this line, I have a really huge bridge in Brooklyn I’d be willing to let go cheap.
Human beings are capable of altruism, but it occurs rarely and you can’t legislate it like the social engineers seem to think they can.
When socialists say the word “fair” they actually mean “power”. Socialism is all about power, first and last. We know why they hate the concept of freedom from government intrusion.
Yes, Jesus was the son of God, but also the son of Man. He was 100% human, 100% God. It is the mystery of the dual nature of Christ.
You have started a thread about altruism, which is a moral quality, and good and evil. So you are going to get some religious thoughts in response.
As I consider whether altruism exists or is just some ideal, I can’t help but think of Jesus. If I denied altruism exists, I’d be denying, I think, an essential part of Him.
Then, my thoughts develop to, what about those who follow Him? Can they not, do they not, in same way, develop altruistic tendencies as well?
Example: My baby is teething and cries all dang night. Every time I get her to sleep, she wakes back up again. I am a stressed, hurting mess. Up I get, again and again, to walk her around, to soothe her.
Why do I do that? Is it altruism, a selfless desire to help someone who needs my help, despite the fact that my back hurts, my feet hurt, and I am getting delusional with lack of sleep?
Or because, somehow, it makes me feel good to know that I don’t just sleep through my child’s misery?
Even if it makes me feel good to know that I don’t just sleep through my child’s misery, does that good feeling outweigh the bad feeling of the sleeplessness, and the pain?
I suspect that those who deny altruism are trying to justify selfish behavior as an ok or even positive thing to do.
Certainly there are benefits to altruistic behavior. Turning in someone’s wallet instead of keeping it helps make the world be what I want it to be - a place where, if you lose your wallet, someone returns it.
But that is as it should be. The possible benefits to me are incidental.
I think we are on the edge of absolute truth here: absolute good, absolute evil - what is good? what is evil? And that demands a spiritual type response.
Quick response to this:
“Liberals and socialists like to talk about altruism and making everything “fair”. I think not.”
Conservatives want to make competition and opportunity fair.
Libs/socialists want to make the end rewards of hard work and succesful competition “fair,” so that those who did not work hard or lose get just the same reward as those who did.
There is obviously a huge difference.
No. Look at history. Every system that failed was based on altruism. Why did communism and fascism collapse when capitalism is still going and even capitalism is suffering b/c of "altruistic" actions by the gov. to ensure everything is "fair" for people?
Well, I wouldn’t define government actions as altruistic.
To take one person’s money and give it to another is not altruism.
Are you a Kelly-ite or a Peikoff-ian?
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