Posted on 07/19/2010 2:18:51 AM PDT by Ayn And Milton
Last carrier built before 1941, CV-8 USS Hornet. First commissioning after the war, USS Midway, CV-41. With just a handful of exceptions of Essex class carriers not completed prior to the war’s end (Oriskany CV-34 being one) you see around 30 fleet carriers (Essex and Independence CVL’s) sent into battle in 4 years. Add to that the almost 100 escort carriers (CVE’s) built, some of which went to our allies.
And that is just carriers. Add battleships, cruisers, destroyers, subs, tankers, troop transports, landing craft, PT boats, etc. etc. etc. No wonder Yamamoto feared us.
Keep in mind that America's highest scoring air ace of all time, Richard Bong, drove a P-38 Lightning to work in the Pac theater, which lacking the maneuverability of a Zero more than matched it in speed, armament and protection (to say nothing of engine redundancy).
By the time the Corsair, Wildcat, and to a lesser extent the Thunderbolt and Mustang arrived in the Pacific in quantity, Japanese forces had been greatly attrited, and in fact, Kamikaze tactics said every bit as much about the capabilities of Japanese pilot replacement and training programs as they did about bushido.
Of course, another interesting aspect of the Pacific war is that rather than shooting down one plane at a time, the sinking of a carrier could get rid of a lot of enemy planes and even pilots in one fell swoop. If you were positioned to absorb and replace those losses (i.e. the US) you could survive them. If you weren't (i.e., Japan), your naval air campaign became an exercise in diminishing returns.
Great pix, thanks for posting. A BTT for the morning crew.
another bump for a great thread
Battle of France (in the air) isn’t it?
I read years ago that the design was stolen from Howard Hughes.
Perhaps somebody more knowledgeable can calibrate me on this:
In the middle of those pics there’s one of a flight of a dozen Supermarine Spitfires. It looks to me like all of them have two-bladed props. Isn’t it true that these would be a fairly early variant of the Spitfire? Initially they had this two-bladed prop with a Rolls-Royce (Griffon?) engine, but I think they fairly quickly changed that to a 3-bladed prop and a more powerful (Merlin?) Rolls-Royce in it.
Am I right about that?
Generically, two-bladed props are longer and can fly a plane faster (there are exceptions) when level.
Three-bladed props are shorter, giving more ground clearance (essential for operating out of bombed or dirt runways) and faster climbing speeds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hughes_H-1_Racer
The Germans stole the H-1 design, the Japs stole it...everybody wanted it except the U.S. Army because Hughes didn’t stop at a military base to meet with one general on his record-breaking **non-stop** transcontinental flight.
The H-1 had the range and speed to have protected U.S. B-17’s flying from Britain to bomb Germany years before the P-51 was ready. Lots of lives were lost because one general “felt” snubbed by Billionaire Hughes...
Later in the series they focused on the Battle of Britain.
I must have just seen the first part, then. I didn’t remember seeing any segments after Dunkirk.
The biggest downside to the early Hurricanes was the relatively slow top speed of only 323 mph for the Mk. I models, which meant Hurricane pilots had to be very careful not to be out-zoomed by Bf 109E or be forced to fly at lower altitudes, where the Hurricane's excellent maneuverability gave it a fighting chance. That's why the Spitfire was tasked with shooting down fighters and the Hurricane was tasked with shooting down bombers.
Im not so sure about that. The spitfire was good, no doubt about it, but the Hurricane, although not as fast as the Me109 (10-30mph slower, depending on conditions) could out-turn it, was easier and more forgiving to fly, and was easier to maintain and build. Its biggest advantage though was that Luftwaffe pilots underestimated it. “Tired old puffers” was a typical disdainful response. Actually a lot of Me-109s were shot down by the “tired old puffers”. Even so, the important objective was to shoot down bombers, without which no invasion could have happened, and the Me-109s, even if they could outfight the hurricanes, were incapable of protecting the bombers all the time - coordination was too poor and the Me-109’s just did not have the endurance.
Firstly, the Germans were in the war for longer than anyone else. They really started in 1937 in Spain with the Condor legion, going on to 1945 (8 years) whereas the Brits only did six and the americans only four, effectively. Basically, the germans were fighting longer and therefore had more time to notch up scores.
Secondly, as the war turned against Germany, it became increasingly difficult for allie pilots to even find german planes to shoot down! Contrariwise, the few german planes flying had no problems in finding enormous numbers of allied aircraft. Quite simply, the germans just fought more air battles.
Thirdly, its very important for intelligence to know how many enemy aircraft have been destroyed but very difficult to confirm kills through all the confusion and the false claims and the multiple claims. The Brits were probably the strictest in confirming kills before assigning them to an individual pilot, requiring the greatest level of confidence that the enemy aircraft had actually been shot down. Conversely the Germans were undoubtedly the slackest at this, assigning even marginal possibles as definite kills.
Fourthly, the luftwaffe very much had an "Ace" culture. German Aces (experten) were cosseted and feted. Other members of the squadron were expected to follow the lead of the experten and basically help them build up big scores, while taking all the chances and providing better targets for enemy aircraft (basically dying more). In contrast the RAF (and the USAF too for that matter) operated much more on a teamwork basis.
Fifthly fighters dont just gain air superiority. They also have other duties - escorting bombers, ground strafing, and so on. Luftwaffe pilots, with all the emphasis on "big scoring" tended to consider this kind of stuff as "beneath them" and either ignored it or skimped on it. Conversely allied fighter pilots were expected to do close support and ground attack if required and that was that!
I had considered that, but that is what appears odd to me: I would have thought the Brits, since they were fighting longer, would have had a larger number of high-scoring aces as compared to the Americans, but that doesn't really appear to be the case.
"as the war turned against Germany, it became increasingly difficult for allie pilots to even find german planes to shoot down!"
This also should have contributed to more Brit aces, since they initially had the Germans "all to themselves." As the war progressed more and more American pilots were looking for fewer and fewer german planes.
"Conversely the Germans were undoubtedly the slackest at this, assigning even marginal possibles as definite kills."
I recently read a book from the German point of view "Jagdgeschwader 26" was the title, I believe. In many cases the author was able to compare Allie claims and German claims for the same battle. The author made it sound as if the allies were constantly claiming twice the number of victories as they actually achieved. I guess gun cameras aren't always definitive.
With my original question I was really asking if the RAF operations/tactics were significantly different from the Americans and could those differences account for the apparent disparity in the number of high-scoring aces? Or did different assigned responsibilities offer the Americans more opportunities? Thank you for your answer; you pointed out several things that I did not know.
Bomber is the greatest novel I have ever read.
Hartmann did not start flying combat until 1943.
Thank you for that correction. But the second of his 342 victories did not come until 1943. Thus, he had roughly 2 years to achieve his record.
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