But, that IS the situation we're all talking about. Ping to wintertime. Her children started CC courses at age 12 and 13. By age 18, they had bachelor's degrees. (Correct me if I'm wrong, wintertime.)
Star Traveler, with all due respect, you seem unable to understand that there are many different paths to success. As we've said again and again, it is COMMON for high school-age students to take dual-credit courses on community college campuses.
if you're talking about working at some research institution and/or being a brain surgeon or heart specialist, or getting involved in some of the advanced sciences, or working at a NASA facility being in charge of some space program and/or planning on advancing up to be Vice President in charge of a division or even CEO someday -- nope... I would stay as far away from Community College as possible ... LOL ...
How about governor of Alaska? ;-)
....And some people just arent meant to take advantage of that kind of education. If they're one of them, then that's fine. They just have to get by whatever way they can. Not everyone can be at the top... there's always got to be more Indians than Chiefs ...
In the example I gave, one guy (I grew up with) transferred credits from CC to a university, commuted to the university and entered its work co-op program, and upon graduation, was hired immediately as an aerospace engineer for a space satellite program in the mid-1980's. He had to pass security clearance and all. Starting out at a community college never hurt him. Last I heard, he had his own company.
I just remembered: There's another guy I knew who started out at CC. I lost touch and don't know if he ever went to a university, but I do know that he has his own company now, too.
Dr. Thomas Sowell never graduated high school. He earned a GED before entering Howard University and then transferred to Harvard. Where your education starts doesn't hurt. It's where it ends that counts. And it's what you do with it that really counts.
You're claiming authority on the subject based on relatively limited experience in Portland. I've always lived in and around the Philadelphia area surrounded by big-name universities. In Philadelphia alone, there's Drexel, University of Pennsylvania, Temple University. In the PA suburbs, there's Villanova, for example, and here in NJ there's Princeton, Rutgers, and so on.
What counts is whether or not you earned a bachelor's degree, which college awarded you that degree, and what your major was.
they will all shut down and be locked up tighter than a drum at night and on weekends, except for maybe a couple of classrooms (for some evening courses, if they have them, or the university library. There's no partying in those facilities. They're always locked up. The partying goes on in someone's house, or in someone's apartment
Well, no, that's not true. There are daytime events held on campus at universities that can get very rowdy. The university campus is very different from a CC campus. As I said, a university is like a community in and of itself. A community college - especially the suburban variety - has a very different type of atmosphere. (And there are four-year colleges with safer atmospheres, too, such as some of the Christian colleges.)
if that 13-14 year old girl only takes a few course here and there -- well..., she'll be "caught up in age" with the other students, in a few years and then she'll be "age appropriate" -- at that point in time to be able to take a full load of classes.
No, she'll be ahead of the game. Let's say she starts at 13 and takes just three courses each year: one in the fall, spring, and summer. By age 18, she would be in the second half of her sophomore year. Of course, at that point, she'd start full-time and, if she planned right, could have her bachelor's degree by age 20. Again, she has nothing to lose. And taking CC classes during the high school years is exactly what college recruiters are telling homeschooled students to do now.
But, that IS the situation we're all talking about. Ping to wintertime. Her children started CC courses at age 12 and 13. By age 18, they had bachelor's degrees. (Correct me if I'm wrong, wintertime.)
Well, I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about a girl 13-14 years old, going to a university and taking her four year degree program and graduating at (approximately) 18 years old. And that's the situation I would not put a girl in. But, under strict supervision and picking up and dropping off, with a few classes [maybe two], then that's good enough supervision.
So..., in regards to those kids being taken, dropped off, picked up, and continually supervised -- as I said, that's "more like it" -- in watching over a kid that young. And I would say, especially so, with a girl in a university setting.
However, in regards to the length of time you gave, for getting a degree -- that's impossible, under the circumstances described with these kids (who were supervised), in graduating at 18 years old. From 14 years old to 18 years old is "full-time" and being totally immersed in the university setting.
Let's say that a kid starts at 14 years old. It's going to take four years, if they go full time, and they manage to get all the classes they're supposed to get at the right time and there are no scheduling problems. That's a minimum of four years, no matter what -- unless they want to go more than full time and put in a couple of extra classes per quarter and then maybe they can shave off one or two quarters and graduate just slightly earlier. But, that's a real killer to take more than 20 credit hours per term and it would burn a lot of people out. I wouldn't advise that. So, I'm going to say it's a minimum of four years.
That's 14 years old, plus 4 years -- that puts them at 18 years old going full time. Now, if they go like was said (a few classes, and supervised) ... that's going to add another two more years, at least (if not possibly slightly more). That would put them to 20 years old to graduate.
If they went 1/2 time the entire time (let's say three classes per term, max ...) that would put them out by 8 years. So it would be 14 years old plus 8 years and then you've got graduation at 22 years old.
The more plausible scenario is that they start at 14, go two years at half the load (about three classes) and then step up to perhaps 3/4 load (about four classes) for another one year and then a full load for the remainder, which would take them another 2-1/2 years (graduating at 19-20 years old). Then the one who is watching and supervising them, can step back in increments, as they get older, and the last two years, they can pretty much be on their own (just like a regular university student). But, that's about 5-1/2 year process, doing it that way.
Star Traveler, with all due respect, you seem unable to understand that there are many different paths to success. As we've said again and again, it is COMMON for high school-age students to take dual-credit courses on community college campuses.
Well, first let me say, it it "were not common" -- there wouldn't exist Community Colleges ... LOL ...
It's not that I'm saying that students going to Community Colleges is something uncommon ... I'm just saying that if you want to be "at the top" -- you're not going to go that way.
BUT, for some people, "success" is merely graduating at anything and getting a job. If that's the case, then they're a success ... :-)
With others, they've got higher standards.
But, it's a Bell Curve anyway and you can't expect too many people excelling and doing the best and doing exceedingly well ... not in a typical bell curve. There's going to be fewer and fewer people in that higher and higher success category. It just depends on how high you want to define success, I guess. :-)
I know some parents are just glad to see that their kid made it out of high school ... LOL ...
How about governor of Alaska? ;-)
Well, I think that's one thing that they can't teach you very well in school... which is how to be a poltician and leader. I think there... you've either got it or you don't ...
They may teach political science and study all sorts of things about the political process, but there's an intangible there that makes or breaks a person and I don't think you can get that in any university setting.
In the example I gave, one guy (I grew up with) transferred credits from CC to a university, commuted to the university and entered its work co-op program, and upon graduation, was hired immediately as an aerospace engineer for a space satellite program in the mid-1980's. He had to pass security clearance and all. Starting out at a community college never hurt him. Last I heard, he had his own company.
I did mention Bill Gates who didn't even finish his education ... LOL ...
But, as in all these kinds of cases, that's why they came up with the phrase, "the exception that proves the rule" ... :-)
What you're looking at, in general, is what happens across the board. There are always exceptions in just about any general observation (like I was pointing out with running the red lights). I could probably point some guy out who did just fine running all the red lights he could -- but that's not a general rule that I would advise others to follow.
And so, again, I'm talking in the aggregate here and what is the best way to go about it.
Think about it another way -- if one ran their entire life on the proposition of being "the exception that proves the rule" -- I would probably give you a guarantee that this is the kind of a person who is waiting for a disaster to happen in their life ... :-)
Well, no, that's not true. There are daytime events held on campus at universities that can get very rowdy. The university campus is very different from a CC campus. As I said, a university is like a community in and of itself.
Well, whatever activities can go on in actual university buildings themselves -- I'll guarantee you, I'm not talking about those ... :-)
Those which are on university property and in university buildings, even if rowdy, are a whole lot more safe in terms of what I was talking about (in terms of the danger to this girl) than what goes on elsewhere.
And I think you're confusing the "location" of things happening with the "sub-culture" and "environment" of that age-group from 18-24 years old.
To make it clearer, and as to why stuff going on in campus buildings doesn't make a big difference here, in what I'm saying (and why it's not a matter of being at a Community College, a City University, or a University town -- is when you're talking about drinking going on to the point of people passing out, drugs being passed around and used at parties and intimate sexual behavior going on.
Now, having said this, I know that even in high schools, some of this sub-culture mentality (and behavior) goes on there, and right on high school grounds. What I'm saying is that if this is going on in high schools, on their own property -- what happens when kids can get off school property, at a university (when they are on their own time and have blocks of discretionary time available to them, and can get away from school buildings) -- you're going to have trouble there -- especially with a 13-14 year old girl who ends up mixing in that kind of sub-culture. You never want to put a 13-14 year old girl in that situation. And neither a boy, but for a girl, it would be especially dangerous.
That's why I would never put that girl of 13-14 years old in that kind of environment (of that kind of sub-culture and activity. This stuff is going on whether it's a student at Community College, a student at a City University or a student in a University town.
I would only do, as that mother did, when she dropped off the kid, waited until class was over and picked the kid back up again, being there all the time.
By age 18, she would be in the second half of her sophomore year.
But, that's what I was saying, though. By "18 years old" -- then she's age-appropriate for handling it herself ... :-)
Not at 13-14 years old... and not without direct and immediate supervision, with someone dropping her off and picking her up and being right there in case anything were to go wrong or happen.
And taking CC classes during the high school years is exactly what college recruiters are telling homeschooled students to do now.
I can understand why they would say that... it's for them to prove that they "can hack it" in a setting like that, instead of what goes on in home-schooling. It's a different environment than homeschooling would be. And sometimes those professors can be antagonistic to you and they don't know you.
But, as I said up above, that's not what I was talking about. I already agreed that the mother who took her kids to class, waited for them, and picked them back up again was doing the right thing and that's the only way I would ever let some 13-14 year old girl do any kind of class in any situation like that (any institution of higher education).
I'll summarize what I've been saying from the beginning (but not about whether someone should pick a Community College or some four-year university, as that was a side issue and it wasn't relevant (as far as I was concerned) in regards to what I was saying about this 13-14 year old girl.
I was saying that no 13-14 year old girl is equipped and ready and able to handle the environment of going to a university and getting her four-year degree. I don't care how well-adjusted she may seem and/or how socially aware/capable she may seem ... she's not going to be able to hold her own -- in a situation with a lot of other guys there, from 18-24 years old, especially with that kind of sub-culture and mentality that we see going on these days in that age-group.
That's been my point from the beginning and I think anyone who would do that to a girl of 13-14 years old is stupid.
And, to clarify again, I'm not talking about the mother who supervised and dropped off and picked up her kid, and was there all the time, until they got home. That was with limited classes and it was closely supervised. That's the only thing I would ever think was allowable.