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To: BroJoeK
What he did not expect were the levels of destruction delivered by Japanese bombers.

Utter nonsense, and you need to cut it out.

First, you never mention the lives lost with 'destruction' seeming to be only ships and planes, curious.

Second, I don't need to do anything and you telling me what I need is elitist Bullcrap. It's one thing to give up on troops that are in an indefensible situation in war, but quite different to intentionally put them there to start a war. If American's knew that that was what FDR did with the soldiers and sailors at Pearl he would have been put in jail or executed for a crime against humanity.

43 posted on 05/11/2010 8:05:57 AM PDT by unique
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To: unique
"It's one thing to give up on troops that are in an indefensible situation in war, but quite different to intentionally put them there to start a war.
If American's knew that that was what FDR did with the soldiers and sailors at Pearl he would have been put in jail or executed for a crime against humanity."

Calling FDR a "madman," a "war criminal," accusing him of "crimes against humanity" or sarcastically equating him to God -- as you have done -- is all just nut-talk, not serious discussion.
If all you want is excuse for more nut-talk, then this discussion is over.

But if you want serious reasons, then I'll point out what your over-eagerness to hang President Roosevelt has caused you to forget. It's this:

  1. Roosevelt did NOT attack the Japanese fleet in Japanese waters.

  2. Moving the US fleet to Pearl Harbor did NOT start the war.
    The Japanese attack on it did.

  3. Japan and the US were NOT at war before December 7, 1941.
    Indeed there were ongoing negotiations, which neither side had as yet broken off.

  4. The US fleet was IN PORT in US territorial waters.
    It did NOTHING to "provoke" the Japanese EXCEPT remain in a decidedly non-aggressive, unprepared and unalerted posture.

  5. The Japanese did everything possible to keep their sneak-attack secret.
    Indeed many -- if not most -- scholars argue that US intelligence and Roosevelt DID NOT KNOW the attack was coming.

  6. And here nearly 70 years later no one can prove that FDR DID know the attack was coming.
    I believe he did, based on circumstantial evidence, but many disagree, and I cannot prove them wrong.

  7. So, if FDR committed any "crime" it was this: his "War Warning" to Kimmel and Short did not specify the possibility of an air attack launched by Japanese carriers.
    Therefore Kimmel and Short failed to prepare for such eventuality.
    Their failure was considered sufficient cause to relieve and discipline them.

  8. FDR's warning could only be a potential "crime" if he knew in advance the attack was coming.
    That is not proved.

  9. But what's certain is that administration policy at the time was: let an enemy land the first blow on us.

  10. That first blow might have landed anywhere -- on our ships in the Atlantic, on forces in the Philippines, or on our Dutch, British and Australian allies.

That first blow happened to land on Pearl Harbor.
I personally would not crucify President Roosevelt for that.

Would you?

44 posted on 05/11/2010 3:19:33 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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