US Law: permanent residents required to have green card in possession at all times

US Sitizenship & Immigration Services ^ | USCIS

[goods]

A green card is issued to all permanent residents as proof that they are authorized to live and work in the United States. If you are a permanent resident age 18 or older, you are required to have a valid green card in your possession at all times.

[DrC]

“If you provide your social security number, your picture will be in the file that pops up on the dashboard computer.”

Thanks. I actually find that reassuring, as there’s plenty of times when I don’t necessarily have my wallet on me (e.g., if jogging) but wouldn’t want to be subject to being busted for failure to show a government-approved ID card. This implies law-abiding Hispanics, for example, aren’t being subjected to a requirement from which everyone else is exempt.

Clearly this new authority could be abused by cops, but the same could be said of police powers in any jurisdiction and courts can decide when cops have crossed the line in terms of exercising discretion. It’s surely annoying to have to provide info or a card to police, but the benefits of having secure borders surely are worth some price. It’s not clear this is much different than what we all endure at the hands of TSA to ensure airline safety.

[gogeo]

Thanks, this is helpful. But what if I’m a legal citizen walking down the street without any of these documents?

Well, unless LEOs have cause to talk to you, it won't be an issue.

If you make contact for cause, well then, yes, you have to provide ID.

This is not new.

[gogeo]

But anyone walking down the street who police believe is an illegal immigrant actually CAN be stopped by AZ police, dumb ass. That’s exactly what is causing the controversy...

Well, no. It's not a primary offense. Those who are stopped, pulled aside, whatever, for cause can then be asked to provide ID.

Of course, had you read the actual law, or read commentary from sone non-LSM source, you would know this.

You would also know that due process applies, and that this law will be thoroughly litigated by the ACLU, among others.

This law nullifies the common local LEO policy, that local LEOs will NOT verify citizenship.

If you don't understand the problem or the solution, then by golly, you're part of ther problem.

[DrC]

“Well, no. It’s not a primary offense. Those who are stopped, pulled aside, whatever, for cause can then be asked to provide ID.”

Seriously? Violating federal immigration laws is not a primary offense? I obviously must be misinterpreting this provision which allows an arrest for ANY public offense that makes the person removable from the US:
“ A law enforcement officer, without a warrant, may arrest a person if the officer has probable cause to believe that the person has committed any public offense that makes the person removable from the United States.”
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070p.htm

[HiJinx]

Ping!

[Tammy8]

if the officer has probable cause to believe that the person has committed any public offense that makes the person removable

The key is "if the officer has probable cause..." that is a legal term applied to everyone citizen or anyone in this country even prior to this law and it is a much higher standard than just the LEO thinking you are up to no good. Also "probable cause to believe that the person has committed any public offense that makes the person removable" means the LEO has to have probable cause that the person committed an act/crime that is serious enough they would be deported for it.

So the police have to have a reason to be checking you out to begin with- probable cause that you have committed an offense or crime. This is no different than the standards for police to stop any of us and further check us out- the only difference is they were not allowed to check for citizenship prior to this law in many areas.

Laws are different in many areas- many states don't allow their LEO to check citizenship on people they investigate or arrest. Some areas have laws that do allow LEO to check out illegals and do it already. This is a new law in Arizona but I have heard there already are similiar laws in some other states, just don't get the attention of the media and screaming libs and hysterical media.

[DrC]

“LEO has to have probable cause that the person committed an act/crime that is serious enough they would be deported for it.”

So being in the country illegally is not a deportable offense? As I suggested earlier, I really doubt there would be a great deal of controversy if this new law applied only to individuals arrested for breaking some other law. Indeed, it would surprise me if other states didn’t routinely check the immigration status of their arrestees and deport those who were here illegally rather than squander scarce LE resources in prosecuting them and/or housing them in jail.

[gogeo]

You have lost the context.

This law puts an affirmative duty on a LEO, IF stopping/detaining a person WITH CAUSE, to confirm the immigration status of anyone if they HAVE REASONABLE CAUSE to suspect they may not be citizens.

Those who suggest there will be packs of LEOs or vigilantes roaming the streets with attack dogs, molesting anyone with cilantro on their breath, are engaging in rhetoric that is not only fantasy, but irresponsible.

Not only does the law not do what you suggest it will, the courts will not allow LEOs to do what you suggest they will.

[DrC]

“This law puts an affirmative duty on a LEO, IF stopping/detaining a person WITH CAUSE, to confirm the immigration status of anyone if they HAVE REASONABLE CAUSE to suspect they may not be citizens.”

I concur, there is a provision that does what you say above. But there also is THIS provision:
“ A law enforcement officer, without a warrant, may arrest a person if the officer has probable cause to believe that the person has committed any public offense that makes the person removable from the United States.”
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070p.htm

Since being in the U.S. illegally is itself an offense that warrants removing the person from the U.S., the foregoing provision implies that a person may be arrested SOLELY for failure to show the proper papers. It does not have to be in the context of being arrested/detained for a separate reason.

Yes, police have to show probable cause and I am not claiming they will be running around using “cilantro breath” to make this determination. I am merely pointing out that the law does NOT appear to make the query for proof of immigration status contingent on breaking some other law. And this concerns some people since different LEO’s may have looser standards than others about what constitutes probable cause for such a query. What am I missing?

[Tammy8]

I am not an expert but I think crossing the border is the illegal act, from what I understand being here after the crossing is not illegal in most jurisdictions. If that is how it is in Arizona it would seem unless LEO witnessed the crossing they could not use that against the person unless there was another offense or crime committed.

As I understand it truly law-abiding illegals have little or nothing to fear from this law. If illegals commit other offenses or crimes that bring them to the attention of LEO then the fact that they are also here illegally becomes an issue.

[Tammy8]

I am not an expert but I think crossing the border is the illegal act, from what I understand being here after the crossing is not illegal in most jurisdictions. If that is how it is in Arizona it would seem unless LEO witnessed the crossing they could not use that against the person unless there was another offense or crime committed.

As I understand it truly law-abiding illegals have little or nothing to fear from this law. If illegals commit other offenses or crimes that bring them to the attention of LEO then the fact that they are also here illegally becomes an issue.

[Waco]

#13,,And the Kali. politicans are SO happy with this arrangement,,,,just ask them.

[Gray Wanderer]

Since the police cannot use race or ethnicity as probable cause, they can’t suspect you of being illegal just because you are walking down the street. You have to give them reason to suspect you before they can stop you and check your ID.