Posted on 05/03/2010 7:32:40 AM PDT by JoeProBono
This “inbred” nonsense is becuase these backyard breeders and quick buck artists. Just like the Lbaradoole scammers and other cross breeders. The worst the ghestto and trailer park pit bull geneticicts.
“Some of these “purebred” lines need to be “re-bred” through simular selective breeding that was done to create the breed in the first place.”
You realize, of course, that is is impossible to “recreate” the process which produced the current purebred dogs by “going back in time”, as it were, as many of the original breeds used to create the current breeds are no longer extant, don’t you?
“Some of the current pruebred lines have only a few “lines” from which you can breed them with and those are heavily contaminated by the other breeding lines.”
This bit of conflicting, self-contradictory circular logic is impossible for me to even attempt to address.
First you claim that the “purebred” lines have “only a few lines” from which to breed and then you say that those lines are “heavily contaminated” by “other lines”.
Well, which is it?
Either there are only a few inbred lines to breed from *or* there are inbred lines “contaminated” by *other* unrelated lines which would genetically render them no longer “inbred”?
None of what you wrote even makes any sense.
I watched that BBC show and it ~was~ a hit piece sponsored by the same animal wackos who would see all pet dogs eradicated.
This go-round, they played to the emotions of the viewers by including the all-important “grain of truth” that lends *just enough* veracity to their usual lies.
The *only* part of it I agreed with was the issue of “short faced” dogs [”brachycephalic” was the word you were possibly looking for] and how much suffering is imposed upon them in the name of “extreme fashion”.
I am all for introducing mesocephalic dogs into those breeds to improve their health issues...perhaps in some extreme cases, even a dolichocephalic dog could be added in...or, of all the shocking things in the world, incorporate the usually neutered/pet-homed “too long faced/incorrect” dogs *back* into the show breeding stock, thereby improving the breed’s lot as a whole.
The blame for this “extreme modification” is twofold and a “the chicken or the egg” conundrum.
The judges who ~reward~ the extremism with ribbons are ignorant, ill informed and slaves to whatever fashion is in at the moment.
*They* are the ones who decide which “look” wins the ring.
Then the breeders become accessories after the fact; rather than remaining true to their breed’s original form, they breed to *please* the idiot judges instead of maintaining their dogs’ original shape, integrity and/or functionality.
All too soon, grossly deformed, barely viable dogs are champions and their ‘lines’ become desperately sought after.
What has been done to GSDs is criminal, IMO.
I have seen junkyard Shepherds who are *the* epitome of what a good GSD should look like, yet the breed judge would dismiss it wholesale from the ring ~immediately~ in favor of the slope-backed, cow-hocked things that are winning the shows now.
[brachycephalia and GSD “hyper-angulation” are two of my biggest pet peeves]
The breeders should unite and rebel against the fools who “prefer” the deformed dogs over the functional ones and breed true to original type, IMO.
Of course, *none* of this will have any impact whatsoever on backyard breeder or puppy mill “ethics”.
Regardless of what ~good~ breeders do, there will always be bad breeders and even worse judges who will perpetuate the deformities.
I don’t even know any reputable breeders who “inbreed” their dogs.
Many do “line breed” because it’s the best and surest way to set the “type” in a breed and reinforce good traits, such as genetic health and strength of form and function.
Line bred Ibizans were famously healthy and heavily line bred from the time they came to the US in the 50s.
Then, somebody got worried about the issues you stated and “out-crossing” began using either imported dogs or dogs from ~totally~ different, non-convergent lines.
In a frighteningly short time, they went from being genetically bullet proof to having a laundry list of ailments.
I truly hope this clarifies some of the misinformation and confusion you have about “inbreeding”.
“Some of the purebreed dogs have so many health issues they cannot even breed with each other without outside help.”
Perhaps you are thinking of the singular dog that has something *remotely* related to that bizarre statement; the Bulldog.
They can “breed” just fine but often have to be delivered by C-section because of their over-sized heads.
Other than the logistical problems that may be encountered by a male Chihuahua attempting to romance a female Great Dane, *all* dogs can manage mating quite well, thank you.
[often in spite of and against the incredible odds mentioned above]
:O) They use to argue about which branch of the service was the best, good for you being a military man....thanks for your service. Its important...
Actually, I’ve heard of ghetto thugs needing to use “rape stands” to breed their female fighting pits...otherwise they’re so mean they’d shred the males!
Thinking further, I’m also fairly sure I’ve heard of those stands being used with another breed for support...it would almost have to be doxies, but I can’t swear to that.
“It’s a sin to mix breeds.”
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But that’s how new breeds are developed. I owned an Aussie who had papers from the original dingo sire and that was before the AKC even recognized the breed.
The best dog I ever had was a cross between a registered Golden Retriever and a registered black Lab. The pup looked like a Rhodesian Ridgeback and the intelligence of a 10 year old. He lived 12 plus years and I still miss him.
I think it’s a Southern saying, basically means some people are NEVER happy. No real military tradition in my family - my uncle and I were the only ‘career’ types. He was in the USN in the late ‘30s and finished WWII as a Navy Chief Petty Officer. My dad was a Radioman in the USN also in WWII. The rest of those who served were usually drafted. Ancestors fought in the Revolution, in the Civil War (Confederate cavalry and infantry), WWI, WWII - none in Korea and I was a bit too young for VietNam - although my draft # was 2! Will never forget drinking $0.25 beers in the BOQ bar at Pensacola during flight training watching Saigon being evacuated. Very sad. I have a bit of combat time in my aviation logbook - nothing worth mentioning, Lebanon - and spent the first Gulf War in the bowels of the Pentagon. Timing is everything.
You & some like-minded friends can create your own breed. This may eventually happen with some of these 'designer dogs'. Eventually you form a private club & keep a 'breed book' that tracks the bloodlines of each of your dogs. Eventually your club might vote to 'join' the AKC. At this point your Breed Book gets turned over to the AKC and they manage it.
I would say that once your breed club joins the AKC, you've pretty much eliminated the possibility of judiciously out-crossing your dog. Such a breeding would not be sanctioned.
Even the ghetto thugs need to protect their investment. Seriously.
Beware the term "Rape Stand". That's a PETA term designed to inflame the public. Even dog breeders that you'd consider to be ethical occaisionally utilize restraints (typically muzzles) to protect both dogs.
It's not so much that the dogs may fight (though that can happen). It's more because a mating pair of dogs will form a 'tie' during which the male is physically locked to the female. If the female were to pull away suddenly your prize stud could sustain a career-threatening injury if you get my drift.
That really depends on the breed. The breed that we have is hard to get if you want a good one from a reputable breeder of show quality dogs. You have to fill out an application and they check you out. They call your vet, you have to send photos of your home, yard or they inspect it personally. They can never be bred unless they are shown and achieve their AKC championship. It’s in your contract and if you don’t abide you agree to 10,000. plus attorney fees and court costs. Using the dog to create a cross breed is strictly prohibited and it should be.
If not shown, all must be spayed or neutered.
Idiots mixing and matching as back yard geneticists are vermin.
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I agree 100%!!! I could go into the 101 reasons but I don’t have all day to post why along with the supporting evidence.
Did you forget the sarcasm tag?
THANK YOU for posting that. I was getting ready to find it and post it.
Decades are spent by GOOD breeders to get rid of genetic defects by selective, good breeding.
There are so many things wrong with it, I could spend an entire day supporting my statement with evidence.
Are you a breeder? I fail to see the issue.
No, but there’s been much more informative discussion, so the question I asked in honest ignorance has been answered by a number of people, quite politely.
Why do people keep repeating this “hybrid vigor” myth?
1. It’s been scientifically disproven. George Padgett and others have researched this issue and discovered that the claim that mixed breed dogs are healthier, live longer, have fewer diseases is based on no scientific data and is disproven by study data looking at dog populations.
2. It only applies to different species (and only in some cases). When you breed a rottie and a golden together, they’re the same species.
3. Think about it for a second: if you breed a poodle that has heart problems to an Irish setter than is predisposed to have hip dysplasia, do either of those genetic problems go away? Of course not! The late geneticist George Padgett studied this and found that there are over 100 hereditary diseases within mixed breeds. Furthermore, most mixed breed matings are either by or not done by reputable breeders. Thus, two dogs who have not been OFA certified, have not had genetic testing, get paired. The resulting litter is not a better dog with fewer diseases.
Finally, owners of purebred dogs are more likely to check for heredity diseases than some mixed breed owners. That’s not entirely true (there are irresponsible pure-bred owners and great mixed breed owners). But when people have measured (like Padgett) they find more heredity diseases with mixed breed dogs. This does not mean that a mixed breed dog is a bad dog, only that health or “hybrid vigor” are not reasons for designer dogs.
“only in certain circumstances: when a hybrid is seen to be superior to its parents, this is known as hybrid vigor. When the opposite happens, and a hybrid inherits traits from their parents that makes them unfit for survival, the result is referred to as outbreeding depression.”
True hybrids are the product of breeding two different species. Breeding a donkey and a horse produces a mule, breeding a lion and a tiger produces a liger or a tigon, while breeding a wolf and a domestic dog produces a wolf hybrid. Each of these hybrid breedings is a cross of two different species. The offspring are hybrids. Domestic dogs are the same species. When you cross breed domestic dogs you are not technically creating a hybrid.
Responsible breeders try to identify genetic diseases their dogs might be carrying and to eliminate them by careful breeding.Also, if you stop and think about it, many mixed breeds are simply not tested for most problems. When they get older and limp, it’s just considered old age, although it could well be hip dysplasia. When they get older and start to go blind, it could be PRA, but the owners are unlikely to test for this.
An excellent set of articles dealing with “hybrid vigor” can be found in DogWorld, Jan 1997 by George Padgett DVM. Another very important point to keep in mind is that when a purebred carrying a genetic defect is crossed with another breed or mixed breed, the “bad” genes do NOT “go away” even though they may not be expressed in the offspring. If crossed with another dog carrying the same defect, the offspring of that breeding will demonstrate the defect.
NO!!! By buying these dogs it encourages owners of puppy mills! Period! End of story! No reputable breeder will create a hybrid. NONE will!
This is who breeds the hybrids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y74l8jkbYTY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEt1rkq0Gw4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYOFOFYnrFg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fINHPC9oPrE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y74l8jkbYTY
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