Posted on 04/26/2010 7:56:18 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor
Although I own a couple of guns, they are mostly heirlooms or antiques, and don't get much use. I am in the market for a good all-purpose defensive handgun -- for home defense, target practice, concealed carry, and general training. I don't have a CHL at this point, but want to begin training to get one. I have had several models recommended to me -- HK USP Compact (45 or 9mm), Kimber 1911, Walther P99, Sig Sauer P229, Glock 19.
I went out shopping a bit this weekend at a local dealer. I was inclined to go with the Barrett 50 cal, but it isn't quite concealable enough (haha). Based on recommendations and reviews, I am leaning toward the HK USP at this point (though I am undecided on whether to go for the 9mm or the 45). From what I have heard, the HK USP is pretty-well the top-of-the-line for defensive handguns. The dealer also pointed me toward some new HK models that are supposedly upgrades on the USP -- the HK45 (the 45 version) and HK P30 (the 9mm version).
So, for FR gun enthusiasts -- what are your recommendations? Is the USP the appropriate choice for a general all-purpose handgun? Is it an appropriate weapon for beginning a training program? Would the Sig, Glock, Kimber, Walther or another model be a better choice? Would you recommend going with a 9mm or 45? And, for those that have tested both the USP and the HK45 or HK P30 ... are the upgrades on the newer models worth the additional $200-$300 price tag?
Thanks.
SnakeDoc
Old reliable, especially if it's a Smith and W. Excellent manstopper with the right ammo. A bit on the loud side, though, so prepare for some hearing loss of you have to use it.
Having said that, I'll once again extoll the value of the SIG 229 in .40. Not cheap, even used, but utterly reliable. I've put thousands of rounds of all sorts of ammo through mine and it's still as tight as the day I bought it. Accurate, too. And it's nice to have 13 rounds of high-performance .40 on tap in a nice, concealable package.
Nobody else has really mentioned the Walther. How does the P99 compare to the Glock 19 (and some of the other guns mentioned ... HK USP, Sig P239, Kimber 1911, Springfield XD, etc.)?
SnakeDoc
BUT, if you don't train regularly with them, haven't taken the time to determine a truly RELIABLE load for them (most people don't as you know), and practice failure drills until they're muscle memory, I think auto-loaders aren't the best choice for first time defense guns.
I take a lot of crap for that, but I'll stick with it.
A good .357 can chamber and fire both .38 spl and .357 magnum cartridges. If one fails to fire, just pull the trigger again and there's a 99.9% chance it'll go bang.
There are no magazines to lose, drop, or fumble with. And no one can argue that the .357 magnum lacks sufficient power.
There's a universe of small, concealable, well made 5 and 6 shot packages available today and they're quite common on the used pistol market.
As usual, just my two cents, everyones mileage will vary.
Good to see you about my friend. Take care.
I like the way you think...
Nice. Comes with a full size and a compact? HK is a bit more expensive ... I wonder if they sell sets like that as well.
SnakeDoc
The P99 is a bit “different” compared to the Glock and XD. Being a DA/SA configuration it’s a bit more like the Sig 239, but I think the Sig has better ergonomics and is simpler. The P99 decocker is in an awkward place (top of slide) and the magazine release is a lever on the bottom sides of the trigger guard, very different from other guns mentioned.
I had a P99 but got rid of it for a number of the above reasons. If I needed a “point and press” polymer auto, I’d probably go with the XD as it fits my hand better than the Glock. For an alloy frame pistol, non-1911, the Sigs would get the nod.
That's why I selected a Glock mod 20 with 5 15 round magazines for mmy 'goin' to war' pistol. 2 mags are filled with 180 grain FMJ, the other three are full of some of my rare stash of Black Talon ammo.
It's big, heavy and shoots like a dream for me, a nightmare for those on the 'service' end.
What Lurker says is good.
May I also suggest that if this is your first handgun, get a hammerless revolver.
That b one that you do not have a visable hammer to get in the way to allow you to screw something up.
If you are in a situation where it is time to use a weapon then you want it simple with little to get screwed up. Ya get a semi and are not familiar you can have your thumb ripped off by the shell extraction.
I am one of a growing number of gun carriers who think the P-99 is a far better gun accuracy wise and ergonomically than the Glock. I can get the hits better all day long than with either of my glocks.
H&K does not offer this package. We used to own them but Sig is good. You get a full size and sub-compact. You can also get this 2SUM package chambered in 9-mm or 40 S&W
I’ve seen it on Gunbroker in the $700-800 range. Extremely good value and high quality.
Check this out, you can’t beat it:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=165847685
Only if by 'high velocity' you mean 5.56mm and not .22 LR.
Even HV .22 LR only turns about 1300 fps or so.
Ah, another item to add to the mix.
Many years ago I bought a SW .38 for home protection.
Since I had 2 kids I kept the revolver and ammo separate. (this prior to safes, locks,etc.)
Anyway, one night I was sure someone was trying to get in the front window.
Got the revolver, crouched down beside the bed and attempted to load it.
What a fiasco fumbling around in the dark all hyped up.
Turned out to be a false alarm.
Traded it for a Browning HP that has a magazine disconnector.
A round in the chamber, cocked, magazine in different location. Pistol won't fire.
Shove in the magazine and it's ready to fire.
So magazine disconnectors do have a purpose.
.Just something to consider.
Yep - revolvers are the best for the inexperienced. My use of the term ‘inexperienced’ isn’t meant to cast aspersions - it’s just the truth. We talk a great deal about weapons, but it really comes down to one’s will to live and the willingness to take whatever action necessary to achieve that.
One fellow I knew years ago said that he wouldn’t pick up a gun for any reason. My response was that not only did he not value his own life, but the lives of his wife and two kids were, in his judgement, not worth anything either.
That got him pissed. I told him, good - you’ve made the first step towards living in the real world. He didn’t much like that, either. needless to say, we didn’t have much to say to each other after that.
I have lost track of how many rounds I have shot in my 229, but well over 3,000 including 450 in one day at an advanced combat handgun course. The gun has never missed a beat. I really like the .40 round in this gun...almost no recoil and very accurate - even for me.
LOL at that. Sometimes a good, hard slap across the chops rhetorically speaking is a very good thing.
Autoloaders take a real commitment to training and practice. Most people make the mistake of buying a couple boxes of 'premium defense' ammo and figure they're good to go. But if you don't shoot at LEAST several hundred rounds of it to determine that it functions at LEAST 100 straight rounds without a malfunction you're playing a dangerous game with your life.
And that's a pricey proposition. So, most people don't do it.
With a revolver that part is pretty much eliminated. Bullet shape, cartridge length, feed ramps, polished throats, all those issues are eliminated. If the cylinder turns the odds are vastly on the side of 'it'll go bang'.
That's a huge plus to revolvers, especially for inexperienced shooters or those who lack the budget or time for serious training.
That’s actually the primary reason I am disinclined to start off with a revolver. Six shots, and a pain to load in a pinch.
SnakeDoc
“Most people make the mistake of buying a couple boxes of ‘premium defense’ ammo and figure they’re good to go. But if you don’t shoot at LEAST several hundred rounds of it to determine that it functions at LEAST 100 straight rounds without a malfunction you’re playing a dangerous game with your life.
And that’s a pricey proposition. So, most people don’t do it.”
Very true and I tell any new gun buyer that they have to get out and shoot. Just buying the gun and ammo is no good to you.
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