#4 shot, 135 pellets/oz - For the friends & family drywall equation.
#4 buck, 27 pellets/oz – for the removal of unwanted meat and bone.
Just add a few large and loyal dogs to 'buy' you a few seconds, and ta-da, home defense on the cheap.
Posted on 04/26/2010 7:56:18 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor
Although I own a couple of guns, they are mostly heirlooms or antiques, and don't get much use. I am in the market for a good all-purpose defensive handgun -- for home defense, target practice, concealed carry, and general training. I don't have a CHL at this point, but want to begin training to get one. I have had several models recommended to me -- HK USP Compact (45 or 9mm), Kimber 1911, Walther P99, Sig Sauer P229, Glock 19.
I went out shopping a bit this weekend at a local dealer. I was inclined to go with the Barrett 50 cal, but it isn't quite concealable enough (haha). Based on recommendations and reviews, I am leaning toward the HK USP at this point (though I am undecided on whether to go for the 9mm or the 45). From what I have heard, the HK USP is pretty-well the top-of-the-line for defensive handguns. The dealer also pointed me toward some new HK models that are supposedly upgrades on the USP -- the HK45 (the 45 version) and HK P30 (the 9mm version).
So, for FR gun enthusiasts -- what are your recommendations? Is the USP the appropriate choice for a general all-purpose handgun? Is it an appropriate weapon for beginning a training program? Would the Sig, Glock, Kimber, Walther or another model be a better choice? Would you recommend going with a 9mm or 45? And, for those that have tested both the USP and the HK45 or HK P30 ... are the upgrades on the newer models worth the additional $200-$300 price tag?
Thanks.
SnakeDoc
I have a thing against superflous safety designs. Magazine disconnects are one.....and the Walther Quicksafe is another.
Walther QuickSafe® Safety redefined: The partially cocked striker assembly is decocked simply by removing the backstrap. The removed backstrap therefore doubles as a “key”. Without it, the pistol can’t be fired!
Cannot believe gun manufacturers actually think most gun owners want this nonsense. It could be an option for those with kids, but if it is mandatory, their gun is not even a consideration for me.
Kimber’s firing pin safety is villified by many, yet I love it, as it is a passive design and will never get int he way if you grip the gun as one should.
OK, accepting your premise for the sake of argument, how would you define a “normal” gun that won’t alarm the jury?
Keep in mind, RD, that they’re forced to use ball ammunition. That’s a draw back with either caliber.
#4 shot, 135 pellets/oz - For the friends & family drywall equation.
#4 buck, 27 pellets/oz – for the removal of unwanted meat and bone.
Just add a few large and loyal dogs to 'buy' you a few seconds, and ta-da, home defense on the cheap.
My guess is that you’re not a huge fan of the Magna Trigger. ;)
That's a Swartz type safety, correct? If so, I agree that it's a better concept than the Colt Series 80 firing pin safety actuated by the trigger.
LOL! No, I will never trust my life to samarium magnets.
I think a magnum might be overkill. More of a plaything than a practical self-defense gun — its a bit like a black powder musket ... cool to have, fun to shoot, not particularly useful.
>> Remember this too. Any gun you use may end up as a piece of evidence in your trial. A normal fire arm might help people think of you as a normal gun owner and not a person keen to have a gunfight. It could matter in my humble opinion.
Interesting point. But, I think most handguns will be written off as a “normal” firearm. Magnums or some of the more “Dirty Harry” like weapons may carry some additional baggage ... but a Glock, Sig or HK would probably all look the same in the eyes of a jury (though if it has a silencer, you may have a problem).
SnakeeDoc
Yup....many 1911 aficianado’s hate it but I think it is the best of all possible worlds. A safety without the need to do anything.
If it don't start with 4, don't go to war! The 40 is a downloaded version of a 10mm, originally designed for the feds to give about the same muzzle energy and velocity they had in their previous sidearms. Personally I'd take a 40 or 45 over the 9 or 10.
No. Not picking a fight either, but do you have any evidence that it didn’t ever matter? My opinion is that juries are not entirely rational. The gun used should not matter, and OJ should have been convicted for murder. If someone wants a flame thrower for personal defense, I’d suggest a shotgun. But that’s just my opinion.
Well, the series 80 fits that description as well, but I think the Swartz is a better concept.
I’m not much of a dog guy (I’ve got two kids ... there’s enough chaos in my house). Anyway, a gun is cheaper than having to feed the damn things until they croak.
A home defense shotgun is probably next on my list — but the handgun is first. I figure I’ll get a general use handgun, a more concealable handgun, a home defense shotgun, maybe an “assault” rifle ... and an emergency Barrett 50 cal (just in case of hoards of zombies).
SnakeDoc
They’re still using the P226 in 9mm, predominantly, IIRC.
The HK MK23 “Boat Anchor” never really went very far as an “offensive sidearm”.
Ask yourself *honestly* how large a gun you are *really* going to carry every day, through all your normal activities. Most likely the answer is something a whole lot smaller than most of the options being discussed on this thread. About 3/4ths of successful self-defense uses of a gun don’t involve firing it, so the “firepower” issue is usually a moot point. Most criminals will change their plans when they see their intended victim pointing a gun at them — any gun.
The only gun that’s going to help you when the chips are down, is a gun you actually have with you. In my case, that’s a KelTec P32. No, it doesn’t have massive firepower, but it’s got plenty to change the mind of 99.99% of thugs who go around attacking random citizens. And I have it in the pocket of my running shorts when I’m out running, which is as likely a time as any for some thug to get an idea to attack me. I’m a 120 pound female. If you’re a bigger guy, you could probably tote the KelTec P38 around with you pretty much all the time.
I have nothing against bigger guns. My arsenal includes a .357 Magnum and 9mm Browning Hi-Power. On a couple of occasions when I was heading somewhere that seemed particularly risky, I’ve packed the Browning (e.g. in one case, to see a remote residential property which was being sold in foreclosure, and whose pissed-off foreclosee had been convicted for bigtime drug-dealing and was living in a little house right next door). But no way it is going jogging with me, or even being carried around in my handbag every time I go shopping.
Well, I listed some in my post. I think the .38’s and the .357 revolvers don’t seem like odd guns. I’m thinking the Glocks, the 1911’s, and similar guns are such that nearly everyone sees them as ordinary pistols today. A Desert Eagle might be basically a similar automatic and yet strike an anti-gun person as thinking the owner was a gun nut. Don’t get me wrong. Buy what you want. But don’t expect everyone to be rational about it if you end up in court.
I hear internet arguments like the one you made all of the time, but nobody ever backs them up with tangible facts.
Same with people who OC being targets of BG’s.
Show me the evidence of either!
With the information I’ve gathered, I’m leaning toward the HK 45 or HK USP 45 (still haven’t decided whether the upgrades on the HK45 are worth it). I want to go test fire some before make a decision (because an $800-$1000 investment is quite a bit for a guess) ... want to try out the Sig Sauer P229 and Glock 19 as well, and maybe a Springfield. Those seem to be the big non-revolver suggestions.
SnakeDoc
Weel, they can please the courts till the cows some homw, I will never buy such a design.
Ultimately, it is people like ME the need to convince, not the courts. The can please the courts and still go bankrupt......those two are not mutually exclusive.
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