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To: Lmo56

All well and good, however..........

The Founders did not label the population of the US as “subjects” The definition of NBC was not taken from Blackstones.

The Founders used Vittal’s Law of Nations and called the population “citizens” as per Law of Nations......

The US and most states use Statuate law and not Common Law.

A Natural Born Subject is not the same as a Natural Born Citizen....


349 posted on 04/20/2010 7:07:32 PM PDT by Forty-Niner ((.))
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To: Forty-Niner

The Founders did NOT use Vittal’s as a Bible. They used Blackstone more often than Vittal, since Blackstone was more authoritative.

Common law at the time included the Case of the Post-nati:

http://app.libraryofliberty.org/?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=911&chapter=106337&layout=html&Itemid=27

Also, see here:

http://aleksandreia.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/birthers-the-original-meaning-of-natural-born-citizen/

If he is correct, Vittal’s didn’t mention NBC until 1797.


367 posted on 04/20/2010 7:49:01 PM PDT by Mr Rogers
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To: Forty-Niner

There is debate as to the use of the “Law of Nations” - and Vattel’s definition of a “natural born citizen” amongst the Founding Fathers. Although, I personally do agree that they probably did use that definition ...

For this debate, I wanted to exclude that argument from the table. I also give Obama a Mulligan as to whether he was born on US soil [for the sake of argument, I assume that he was].

So, assuming that the Founding Fathers DID NOT use Vattel and assuming Obama WAS born on US soil - is he a “natural born citizen” ???

Not according to prevailing English Law in 1787 - when the Constitution was written. English Law dictated two [2] conditions - birth within the realm [subject to the exceptions contained in the British Nationality Act of 1730] AND permanent, solitary allegiance to the sovreign.

There was NOT MUCH “American Statute Law” in place at the time. When the separation from Great Britain was complete, ALMOST ALL of the law used in the United States was British Law [except that which we disagreed with].

The lawyers amongst the Founding Fathers were trained either at English Law Schools, American Universities [which taught English Law], or studied under established attornies [who, themselves, were trained at English or American Universities that taught English Law].

Since the Constitution has not been amended to modify the definition of “natural born citizen”, we must necessarily use the definition that was in place at the time that the Constitution was written.


368 posted on 04/20/2010 7:49:48 PM PDT by Lmo56
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