Posted on 04/05/2010 7:40:19 AM PDT by DCBryan1
One way to approach it is this:
If you have a 200 amp service now from the utility, and you truly do want no change in capacity when the power is out, then you need a gneset with 44kw capacity (220v * 200a).
But that’s awfully big....
her criteria is to be able to run everything in the house if the power goes out.
???
Good Luck. Unless you are billionaire, that is a pretty steep order.
Very expensive requirement.
Better strategy is to assume there will loss of food stuffs in the fridge and plan on using them before they go bad on you.
I have some experience in this.
First off is budget. If you want to run your whole house, you’re going to spend a LOT of money.
My generator runs my well pump, the fridge, some lights, the computers and the fireplace insert.
If I could afford it, I would have a diesel.
My mom has a “whole house” generac that cycles itself every 2 weeks for 10 minutes, it is also auto cutover. I think all totaled, it ran about 15k. Your mileage may vary.
I have one where I pull a big cutoff have to run a 220 cord to the well and a 110 cord for everything else.
My service provider started offering a generlink http://www.generlink.com/about_generlink.cfm which I may get.
Have a 25KW Katolite auto-start here. Runs on propane, which we also use for heating. It has a 4 cyl. Nissan engine and a Chinese generator, but it still came with a “Made in USA” sticker.
It will run our 2500 sq ft house with heat pump, electric stove, etc. without trying too hard. 15 kW is the most load it ever has had, and that was when I load tested before writing the check to pay for it. With installation, the total price came to just over $10K. Bought it because Hurricane Isobel knocked power out for folks just a mile or so from here for a week. (We had a 1 hour interruption.) Our place is on well/septic with no natural gas available, so it would be difficult to impossible to cope with a week power outage.
Although natural gas usually holds up better than electricity during a storm, it also can fail, so you really need a second fuel source. If you go with natural gas as the primary, it might be possible to use propane as the backup, although I believe the carburetor settings are slightly different.
We have a 500 gal propane tank already and just tap the generator into it. At max load, it consumes around 2.5 gal/hour if I recall the stats right. In an extended outage, I would run it part of the day.
So far, the longest continuous run time is 25 hours, in February during the 24 inch blizzard.
One other point - our generator has a 1 KW block heater that runs 24/7 in the winter - this is so that the generator will crank and start no matter how cold it is. This increases our winter electric bill about $75 a month. If that’s a problem for you, check whether a block heater is standard and if so whether it can be disabled.
Jack
“Size” your needs first - how many kW avg, how many peak?
Dual is good - NAt gas with a porpane as standby. Fuel spill can be expensive.
Onan and Kohler are good and make ‘home standby’ systems. Check to see if theunit has an oil or water jacket heater. Needed in cold weather.
ENsure the unit is in an enclosure and a real good muffler system.
Before your buy, ask to see and hear a similar (or, better yet) an exact installation.
ASk how often (how many hours) service is required, and how much the service will cost. Ensure any unit has an hour meter, that is how you do maintenance.
AUtostart or manual and switchover - check your local codes.
Be prepared to pay a lot, here just installing a manual bulldog box to switch over and dropping a tail for the genset to hook to is about $2L - by a licensed and ponded/insured electrical contractor.
Remember what Mike Holmes say - if the guy can do the work tomorrow, you don’t want him...
Hope this helps.
That’s what I thought too. May need to lower expectations a bit...
2 kw solar pv system is around 15k,
same with a wind system, though wind power’s viability would be subject to your location.
You would get a 30% tax rebate on either system or both,
and your utility company MIGHT have some incentives as well.
How much, though, for a 5kw generator and a week’s worth of fuel? Probably much less.
It costs about $15k or so to get the whole system together. It hardly requires being a billionaire. IMHO, it’s a worthwhile investment.
I was thinking the same thing, bwahahaha. You can put up a very large windmill with back up batteries. You’d be talking about something well over $45,000+. Don’t think anything else would come close. You could get a very good generator, that would run a few lights and the fridge. Or several generators and several hundred gallons of diesel. Seeing you live in a state with a far amount of sun. You can also put up a bunch of solar panels. Or a combo of all those things.
Talk to Caterpillar, Allison, and ONAN. They will give you good advice.
Your fuel choices are basically natural gas, propane, gasoline or diesel. I think you can get generators that will work on any of those but you need to choose fuel up front.
Their chart seems to be giving me way too much generator than what I would need.
I need 7KW at the most and it says I need 13-15kw.
Unless you do all your work yourself, I would think you would want something that can be supported locally with the least effort and cost.
An engine can be dual fuel natural gas and diesel. But it is very expensive and not practical for residential sized units.
I have done it for remote oil field production facilities. But that was a 30MW power plant and the gas had to be compressed to 3,600 psi. They were piston engines, but V18’s and over 31,000 cubic inches. Six 5MW gen-sets; 110 tons apiece.
I have 2.
A Coleman 1800 watt Powermate and a Champion 3500 watter.
I got the Coleman first at a hock shop (a couple weeks after a pretty heavy storm) for 150 bucks.
It can run lights, tv, coffee maker, but the problem is it will run the fridge OR the freezer - but not both.
So about 2 years back I got the Champion which is plenty to run pretty much my whole place.
Of course, with any generator, make sure the oil is always good, and if you leave it sitting for long stretches, drain the gas.
I generally start mine about 3 times a year just to make sure they get warmed up and run good. Put a load on it check it out then shut em down.
BTW, get a can of starter fluid and set it right next to the generator. When you’re cold and/or tired the last thing you want to do is have to mess with it!
And like I said, you can sometimes get some really good deals if you troll the hock shops.
If wifey has money to burn, you might as well make a little profit for yourself in this.
Find the capacity of your electrical service, double it, find a reputable responsible contractor, tell him what you want, the best equipment, dual fuel complete installation, take his bid, add 25%, and tell wifey to pony up front.
Plus for you, no income tax on your cut!
1. Figure out what you would need to survive for 1-3 days.
2. Figure out what you would lose money on in such a situation. In an emergency you should be prepared to absorb some losses... it's life that you must preserve, not luxuries. The ice cream can be replaced. You might need the beef, though.
In general, you can run a few lights with any generator. Beyond that, you should probably add up your Fridge and freezers to the extent necessary to support survival. Even portable heaters consume HIGH wattage, but at least one is needed in winter (figure 1500-1800 watts for that alone)... don't plan to try and run a heat pump in winter or summer. If you are on a well, you should have a means to connect the pump for water. For cooking, I'd go with the outdoor grill.
That's really about it.
Go with a gas generator - generally 3000 to 6000 watts. Propane or Nat Gas models are available, but you have to have a reliable source of whatever fuel you need... which might be tricky in emergency situations.
One more note: if you're trying to run a bunch of devices at once, you'll need extension cords and splitters that can handle the amps... but generators usually only support 2-6 devices at once, and that's a reasonable guideline to work within... don't go nuts or you'll have a fire hazard on top of everything else.
Not practical in other words.
Interesting - compression ignition natural gas?
Or does it have spark plugs for the NG mode?
This includes surge voltage, i.e. initial start-up of motors, etc. requires more voltage than keeping them running.
I wouldn’t go with anything less than a 10K unit for a house.
generator ping
You could run the refrigerator on this, assuming it draws about 400 watts:
http://www.powerenz.com/store/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=156
Thing is under your scenario it might be a good idea to have four of them so you cycle them as power is drawn from reserves and you can charge the others when daylight permits.
Cost? More than $5000 ea or more than $20,000 total.
Who needs a fridge in gird down anyway? Better to prepare using foods that do not require refrigeration before use.
Another idea is this and it costs less than $60 bucks per unit to make and always cools food.
The Zeer Pot - a Nigerian invention keeps food fresh without electricity
http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2004/september/refrigeration.htm
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