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To: 21twelve
There is nothing in the way your father conducted business that would be anti-Objectivist. Rand did not claim that blind selfishness was a virtue, nor did she claim that monetary reward was the only kind of reward a person can obtain. However, Immanuel Kant -- the moral philosopher Rand most despsied, and justifiably so -- would have said that your father's employment of "unnecessary" carpenters was NOT morally good, precisely because he died a happy man. Since he "got something out of" what you and I certainly agree was highly moral behavior, in Kant's opinion, it was not a moral good.

Kant's drowning man argument is instructive. Two men are drowning. One is your brother, the other a stranger. You can only save one. In Kant's view, it is immoral to save your brother, because it is not truly selfless. Here is another example: a murderer and a millionarie are drowning under the same circumstances. It is less moral (in Kant's inane worldview) to save the millionaire, because there is the possibility of a reward.

It is this making a fetish of altruism that is so destructive to our civilization.

18 posted on 03/27/2010 11:45:08 PM PDT by FredZarguna ("I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.")
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To: FredZarguna

actually her quote is

“If any civilization is to survive, it is the morality of altruism that men have to reject. “


21 posted on 03/27/2010 11:52:08 PM PDT by porter_knorr (John Adams would be arrested for his thoughts on tyrants today!)
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To: FredZarguna

I guess my old man was really immoral! He told me later that he paid his two carpenters not only to keep them fed and everything, but also so they would be with him when things got busy again! (They also ignored all of the various labor strikes too!)

Interesting viewpoints from Kant. I’ve heard of the guy, but didn’t realize he was that far out there. I imagine if someone were drowning I wouldn’t have too much time to think about it. Would probably either go for the closest one first, or the one having the most trouble.


23 posted on 03/28/2010 12:04:34 AM PDT by 21twelve (Having the Democrats in control is like a never-ending game of Calvin ball. (Giotto))
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To: FredZarguna
and often so very short sighted in that people often pat themselves on the back without truly examining themselves and their motives. They sort of scan the surface, smile and move on all self righteous and such.

Let's see. Given your Kant philosophical examples, I will add: If Ayn Rand and I. Kant were both drowning which one would I rescue? Ayn! Because girlfriend was damn intelligent, fascinating, as well as prescient in her understanding of these commie whackers and had herself the objectivity to look through the looking glass and see the world with incredible accuracy.

32 posted on 03/28/2010 12:52:42 AM PDT by GOP Poet (Obama is an OLYMPIC failure.)
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To: FredZarguna
In Kant's view, it is immoral to save your brother, because it is not truly selfless.

Whence the silly, new-age view that the most moral acts are those no one knows about.

Let me also put another anti-Rand shibboleth to rest: that she was anti-family and opposed to helping others. This is a short excerpt from "Atlas Shrugged". The character is agonizing over an order he's been given which will, he's certain, result in the deaths of several hundred people.

As Bill Brent had learned to see, by a single glance at a few numbers on a sheet of paper, the entire trackage of a division – so was now able to see the whole of his own life and the full price of the decision he was making. He had not fallen in love until he was past his youth; he had been thirty-six when he had found the woman he wanted. He had been engaged to her for the last four years; he had had to wait, because he had a mother to support and a widowed sister with three children. He had never been afraid of burdens, because he had known his ability to carry them, and he had never assumed an obligation unless he was certain that he could fulfill it. He had waited, he had saved his money, and now he had reached the time when he felt himself free to be happy. He was to be married in a few weeks, this coming June.

Rand never preached that you live your life only for yourself. She believed that we were not born merely to serve others -- but that we should choose our obligations freely and rationally.

48 posted on 03/28/2010 5:29:28 AM PDT by BfloGuy (It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we can expect . . .)
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