Posted on 03/25/2010 7:04:44 AM PDT by greatdefender
Teachers, parents and education leaders are in Tallahassee Thursday fighting for education funding but there's another issue on their minds: a new merit pay evaluation system that could potentially change the way teachers are paid.
"I think it's a good idea but the way it's being done is concerning me," Lawton Chiles Elementary School Principal Ian Gesundheit, said.
Teachers would have to make the grade, being evaluated on the new system that would eliminate tenure and base teacher raises on how well students perform on standardized tests. More than 50 percent of a teacher's evaluation would be determined by student success, not by teacher experience.
"If you have a master's degree, if you take the time to be nationally certified, you should be rewarded for that in monetary value. I also think the control should be locally," parent Angie Gallo said.
"I don't believe in merit pay because it would not be fair for the teachers that teach in lower schools. Their children would not be scoring as high as the children in the higher income schools, therefore they would not get the pay that the other teachers would get," teacher Andria Price said.
If the bill, which passed in the Florida senate Wednesday becomes law, how will it change the classroom experience?
"It would change things in that I think teachers around me would feel frustration. Single teachers who this is the only income, they would definitely feel frustration because this is their life they wouldn't have the salary that they need to pay," said Price.
"I would try to work harder so they could get more money of course," student and Gesundheit's daughter, Leiana, said.
Questions have come up about which standardized tests would measure student success. Some of those tests haven't even been developed yet. Some education leaders WESH 2 spoke to said their not necessarily against the idea of merit pay, they just think the bill needs more work.
NEVER humiliate those who pay your salary. Without the University and donations YOU Sir/Madam would be without pay.
“Piss off” never sounded so good. Ask yourself,... never mind. You just might be the MOST pitiful FReeper EVER to exist on this Forum.
I am now ashamed that I ever waisted my time and family on you or yours.
What a pompous, irresponsible remark. As it is 6:00 A.M. EST at my office, I am now taking my first break since 4:00 A.M. when I started. There will be a meeting at 7:00 you see I am preparing for now. I finished several 3D CAD drawings this morning to take to meeting.
I am glad you can afford Private school with your tenured position. I had my daughter in Private School but thought it would be better to have her trust fund larger for college.
“While the public school administrative costs are typically unjustifiable, the inefficiencies in their operations are typically overstated.”
That is pure BS. Walk into ANY Public School Administration office and you will inefficiencies times 100. Why is it that these costs are 75% of the budget and all they ever do is cry more money for students? It shouldn't take a tenured professor to answer that.
Next time you decide to lecture a mere peasant of the private sector, maybe you should get on your hands and knees and thank the Man Upstairs you are currently not part of it.
As far as my Engineering degree and continued education, I too could have more than one degree. I won't insult you by belittling your accomplishments, however Degrees are available on-line these days. Being able to design and build nuclear power plants, well there aren't many folks who can do this. Trust me. A friend of mine from MIT with a Physics PHD once told me he would rather work at a fast food chain than tenure with the elitists there. He is in aerospace designs for a private company.
Well, off to my meeting at the County (postponed until 8:00) where I have redesigned a complete chill water system that the flunkies at the county approved that would have exploded upon start up, then prove to the architect who has never built anything other than draw pretty blueprint for his tenured college professor, that the redesign will function properly and will not cause the walls to implode.
My next break should be around lunch with any luck.
I agree that teachers should be paid based on how good a job they do. Unfortunately, the teachers often have very little control over what goes on. I have thought for years about how to make a merit system that really bases pay on how good a teacher is. Unfortunately, not all teachers start out with equal students, and you have to add into the mix the parents, the administration and many stupid laws (the ADA for one) that bind their hands.
There is a lot not to like about public education, but the teachers are not the sole cause. But they are an easy target.
I think the closest thing we could come to is getting the feds out of it completely funding included) and let the local folks have control. Let them decide what sort of measure they want to use for teachers. Of course, that won’t happen.
Thank you. People don’t want to think about how hard it is to base teacher pay on merit. I like the idea, but have not ever seen a way that really works.
I think those are all fair questions, but some of them answer themselves. Why do students do better in private schools with vouchers? One reason may be because their parents cared enough to get make decisions on their education. I suspect those parents also hold their kids to a higher standard.
I like a voucher system, altho personally I just think it’s time the federal govt threw up their hands and stepped out of the education business completely. They have taken what was a good education system and destroyed it.
Let the states decide how they want to pay teachers and how they want to make them accountable. And if a state is smart, they let the local people make most of the decisions.
After teaching in a public school I taught at a private Christian school. The difference in the sort of students I had was like night and day. Parents cared, and in fact sometimes drove me crazy because they basically wanted me to focus on their child. However, I would choose that attitude over the attitude of many of my public school parents any day of the week.
Wow, you really need to get a grip. You don’t know that person and yet you presume to know what they can and can’t do? You are certainly not advancing your debate point.
Fine. Then go away. If you are so happy about ending communications, why did you take time out of your busy schedule to issue another rambling, incoherent post to me (see #22)?
You just might be the MOST pitiful FReeper EVER to exist on this Forum.
If this came from someone I respected, it might bother me. Twenty-four hours ago, I was blissfully unaware of you. In that time, I have learned that you are an uninformed, illogical, bullying loudmouth who cannot write a coherent sentence which exhibits the slightest understanding of basic punctuation and capitalization rules.
I am now ashamed that I ever waisted my time and family on you or yours.
I'm fine with that. As I said before, go away. By the way, I have no idea what your family or mine have to do with this conversation. Since you already believe that I am pompous, it's wasted, not waisted.
This is my last communication with you. Any response will be ignored. If you think that I have been out-of-line, you're welcome to report our communications to John Robinson.
Pretty amazing, isn't it?
I'm finished talking to Poobear. It's hard to argue with incoherent ramblings and a chip-on-the-shoulder attitude.
At one time, I would have been pretty adamant about merit pay. I mellowed a lot on this issue when I understood how difficult it is to accurately measure teacher effectiveness.
I said a lot of things about the school systems and teachers before I was one. It’s easy to criticize (and the public system has certainly opened themselves up for it) but if anyone really wanted to improve things, that is give us kids with real educations that can lead to good jobs and careers (and better understanding of civics) they would see that there are a number of things that need to be dealt with, not the least of which is the politicians using the schools to advance their agendas and parents who see them as free baby sitting services.
However, I don’t expect that to happen, and having been there and done that, I applaud most people who can go every day and be there and maybe make a difference. And ALL conservatives should stop slapping conservative teachers in the face. THEY are the ones who have the potential to change things.
Good point. Just because someone is employed by educational system doesn't mean that they have signed on to the political agenda of the administrators. A lot of people would be surprised by how many conservatives there are in most universities.
I have a couple of friends who are professors and who hold political views with which I would strongly disagree. Yet, I would have no problem with my children being taught by them. That's because they know that their responsibility is to teach their discipline and not to politically indoctrinate their students.
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