NS, your shoe fits like a glove.
Here it is...
Posted on 02/19/2010 5:51:27 AM PST by wizard1961
If BHO is removed from office because he is not a natural citizen, he then becomes a race martyr and Biden becomes president. Hillary probably becomes VP. How would this help conservatives in 2010 and 2012 -- it would hurt us, right?
If the Lewinsky debacle had removed Clinton, Gore would have become President and cruised to his own electorial victory. This would have been a disaster.
I agree there is a puzzle here. I agree there is free speech & everyone has a right to pursue this. My question: is there some angle here that I've missed that makes this smart?
The real Birtherism for Dummies:
Birther: “Why won’t Barack Obama simply release his birth certificate? If only he did that one little thing, we could put this whole matter to rest. And it would only cost him ten dollars.”
Loren: “He already released his birth certificate. He did it three days after people started asking for it.”
Birther: “Anyone could have Photoshopped that. An anonymous guy on the internet who said he’s an expert in document analysis claimed it was a fake.”
Loren: “You do know that he faked his research and turned out to be lying about his credentials?”
Birther: “But there was a second anonymous guy on the internet who claimed to be an expert, and he also said it was a fake.”
Loren: “He also faked research and turned out to be lying about his credentials.”
Birther: “Regardless, it’s still fake. If Obama truly had nothing to hide, he’d release the physical copy, and not just post a jpeg on the internet. Jpegs aren’t admissible evidence in court.”
Loren: “Since when are we in court? And how should he release it, then? He’s not going to mail you a copy, so all you’ll ever see is someone else’s photograph or scan of it.”
Birther: “He should let the press examine it.”
Loren: “He did let the press examine it. Two FactCheck reporters visited the campaign office, handled the physical document, took photographs of it from multiple angles, and put those photographs online.”
Birther: “Those photos are just jpegs, and jpegs aren’t admissible in court.”
Loren: “Of course they were jpegs; they used a digital camera. You don’t expect them to use a Polaroid, do you?”
Birther: “I still don’t trust FactCheck’s reporters. They’re not forensic experts.”
Loren: “So now you want forensic experts to examine the birth certificate?”
Birther: “Absolutely. I think the document might have been forged.”
Loren: “Based on what?”
Birther: “An anonymous guy on the internet said they’re photos of a forgery.”
Loren: “For someone so worked up over transparency, you sure put a lot of faith in anonymous guys on the internet. It really shouldn’t surprise you at this point when I say that this guy turned out to not be an expert either, and that he also lied in his analysis.”
Birther: “Doesn’t matter. I still can’t see the seal in one of the eight photos.”
Loren: “It’s a blurry photo. Do you think the FactCheck people wouldn’t notice if they were given two different documents to photograph? Why would the campaign even have two inconsistent fake documents on hand, much less give FactCheck both of them to photograph?”
Birther: “Maybe FactCheck is in on the cover-up.”
Loren: “Whatever. I’ll give you your forensic experts. If they verify it’s legit, then will you be happy?
Birther: “Not quite. I want to see the receipt from when Hawaii issued it.”
Loren: “Done. That’s enough to make you happy?”
Birther: “I also want the Hawaiian vital records registrar to formally declare that it is a valid document.”
Loren: “Okay. Now are you happy?”
Birther: “And a formal declaration from the Hawaiian governor.”
Loren: “Sure, why not. Happy yet?”
Birther: “Not yet. Because that document isn’t proof enough.”
Loren: “Not proof enough? Then why did we just spend all that time getting people to vouch for its authenticity?”
Birther: “That document is nothing more than a Certification of Live Birth. I want to see a Certificate of Live Birth.”
Loren: “Why? The Certification says he was born in Honolulu. Isn’t that good enough to prove he was born in Honolulu?”
Birther: “Hardly. The information on the Certification could be different.”
Loren: “But we already had the Hawaiian vital records people verify it.”
Birther: “Oh, right. Well, the information on the Certification could have been amended.”
Loren: “Amended to say ‘Born in Hawaii’ instead of ‘Born in Kenya’? You think Hawaii would allow that?”
Birther: “I think it’s possible. Hawaii used to make mistakes and let foreigners get birth certificates saying they were born in Hawaii.”
Loren: “When, exactly?”
Birther: “One man did it in 1904.”
Loren: “So, over a century ago. Fifty-five years before Hawaii became a state, and almost sixty years before Obama was born.”
Birther: “That’s right. The Certificate would also show the hospital he was born in.”
Loren: “We know the name of the hospital he was born in.”
Birther: “And the name of the doctor who delivered him.”
Loren: “Why would you possibly need to know the doctor’s name to verify that Obama was born in Hawaii? Of what conceivable use is that information?”
Birther: “What if Obama’s parents lied to Hawaiian officials, and claimed he was born in Hawaii, when he was actually born in Kenya. Or Canada. Or Indonesia.”
Loren: “Why is it always a foreign country? Why don’t you ever propose that he was secretly born in, say, Kansas?”
Birther: “Why would he have been born in Kansas?”
Loren: “Because his mother was born there. And it’s a lot closer than Kenya. And the hospitals are better. And they speak English.”
Birther: “Huh. I never thought of that.”
Loren: “Of course you didn’t. Anyway, what makes you think he was secretly born outside Hawaii, but his family defrauded the Hawaiian government?
Birther: “Because I think they could have. Plus, Obama’s a liar, so maybe he inherited that.”
Loren: “Alright, clearly this line is getting us nowhere. So let’s say he releases the Certificate you want. How should he release it? If he simply posted a scan online, wouldn’t you immediately accuse it of being reliable and/or forged, just like you did with the Certification?”
Birther: “Oh, certainly. Anything he releases shouldn’t be trusted unless it’s released as a physical document and reviewed and verified by a competent authority.”
Loren: “So if Obama obtained his long-form birth certificate, published it, had a judge review it, had forensic experts examine it, had Hawaiian officials vouch for it, and then everybody issued a joint, notarized press release that it was legit and he was born in Hawaii, that would be enough? You’d give up arguing that his election is illegitimate, stop filing lawsuits, and concede that he’s eligible to be President?”
Birther: “That would satisfy me that he was born in Hawaii. But that doesn’t mean he meets the Constitution definition of “natural-born citizen” and is eligible to be President.”
Loren: “So you’re begging Obama to release birth certificates, and jump through a bunch of hoops to verify them to your satisfaction, even though you admit it won’t actually stop your complaints.”
Birther: “That’s right...”
This is another common DOJ talking point. Lorane, the AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE NOT STUPID so stop with the talking points. They don't work any more! Get it?
1) So?...Because the “birfers” won't believe anything that is released, Obama should waste the time of DOJ attorneys, tax dollars, and court time when terrorists have plotted to shoot our soldiers dead on their bases and recruitment centers, blow packed to the brim planes out of the sky, and poison masses of soldiers.
Sorry...But that is a very sorry and frivolous excuse for keeping Department of Justice Attorneys from their very important job of keeping Americans safe. The families of the dead soldiers and those who narrowly missed death will NOT NOT NOT be amused, and neither are the American people.
Americans are NOT stupid! They recognize that Obama is behaving like a guilty man. An honorable and honest man would not have WASTED one second of a DOJ attorney's time or even one dime of taxpayer money, or distracted them from their IMPORTANT job of going after really evil people. Instead, he would have been HONORED to promptly release all information and documents in any way related to his natural born status.
As for those oh so **onerous** “hoops” that our poor dear wittle Obama must jump through:
Any Olympic athlete with a background as convoluted as Obama’s would have to provide the SAME documentation. Any common unanointed citizen applying for any position requiring security clearance would be asked to provide the **same** documentation and it would be examined with the intensity of an electron microscope!
So?...Poor poor inconvenienced Obama! ( Poor dear!) Some citizens have the audacity to ask him for the ***same** information and documentation that a little sweet ice skater with her fake eyelashes and cute little costume would have to provide if she presented with the same weird history! It's an inconvenience for poor wittle Obama but the common man applying for a security clearance mans-up and takes it in his stride.
Again....These DOJ talking points are so transparent its pitiful that you are reduced to having to use them.
Oh...One more thing...the “racist” talk point doesn't work any more and neither does the fringy nutty thing work either. In some states half the population has serious questions about Obama’s eligibility. It's time that the Chicago thugs figured out that they can't go calling half the nation racists and nutz. It isn't working any more.
Popcorn placemarker ... you’re exchanging with a dyed in the wool obamanoid who is a stalker of Polarik.
I pray for this every day. I pray the God will confound their minds and cause them to make mistakes. And...I know that there are thousands upon thousands of people who are crying before the Lord for the same.
And the news is spreading like a whirlwind....simply by one person telling another. Obama and his minions will not be able to withstand the righteousness that will remove him.
Loraine is using such transparent talking points it is laughable....and they are so amazingly easy to utterly demolish. It's like crushing a bug.
If she and the other obama defenders think the American people are **that** stooopid to not see through these contrived excuses, Obama is DOOMED. Geeze! Any many of these Obots are likely paid real money for their incompetence, too! :-)
Wow!...Poor poor wittle Obama would be soooo inconvenienced to jump though a few hoops. What a JOKE!
Is there an Olympic athlete who wouldn't just smirk with suppressed laughter? ( Especially those ice skaters who go to considerable expense and burn through attorney dollars just to get the citizenship they need to compete for the U.S.) I can see all those men and women who have ever applied for a security clearance just rolling their eyes in contempt.
Obama would have to jump through hoops? Half of the U.S. would find that unbelievably wimpy! The first thought in their heads would be, “Hey! MAN-UP a little!”
If the shoe fits....
Do you really not (having the end in mind as you do) realize the damage it would bring to the Democratic party?
No. Since many in the Democrat party are complicit with Obama subverting the US Constitution, it would be their downfall as a party. Their party would get even more slaughtered in the next elections for perpetrating the big lie. Although, Da Dems are still going to lose big in 2010 even without Obama being completely exposed as a usurper.
Two years? Your signup date is: EnderWiggins Since Jan 16, 2010
Retread troll? Been banned? What?
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A Rat.
NS, your shoe fits like a glove.
Here it is...
This is a Constitutional issue. To defend the Constitution and have it be upheld is always a benefit in my book.
Free the Long Form!!!"
Hear, hear!
HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN?
“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate.html
Factcheck.org goes on to say this about Obama Sr., Jr. and the British Nationality Act of 1948:
In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or the UKC) by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UKC.http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does_barack_obama_have_kenyan_citizenship.html
Even the modern day State Department rules discusses the problems associated with dual citizenship:
7 FAM 081: U.S. Policy on Dual Nationality:http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86563.pdf(e)While recognizing the existence of dual nationality, the U.S. Government does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Dual nationality may hamper efforts by the U.S. Government to provide diplomatic and consular protection to individuals overseas. When a U.S. citizen is in the other country of their dual nationality, that country has a predominant claim on the person.
...
the U.S. Supreme Court has stated that dual nationality is a "status long recognized in the law" and that "a person may have and exercise rights of nationality in two countries and be subject to the responsibilities of both." See Kawakita v. United States, 343 U.S. 717 (1952).
So, back to the question: "HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN?"
It can't. Of course not. Yet, right there, on his campaign web site F.T.S., it's stated that a foreign government "governed" Barry from birth and the reason it did, was that Barry inherited that foreign citizenship by way of his foreign national father (no matter where he was born), a fact backed up by Factcheck.org. Assuming, of course, that Sr. was his legal father at birth.
How, then, could he possibly be a "Natural Born Citizen" of the U.S.?
Barry Soetoro, the divided citizen at birth!
http://www.jeffersonsrebels.blogspot.com
Furthermore: Hawaii's Territorial Law, Chapter 57 - "VITAL STATISTICS, I", shown beginning pg 23 of 29, (the law in effect in 1961) allowed baby's born anywhere in the world to be eligible to apply for a Hawaiian birth certificate based on the word of 1 relative.
Bottom line: Even IF (big IF) he was born in HI, he inherited his father's foreign citizenship as well, making him a US citizen by US law and the subject of the crown of her majesty the Queen of England by inheritance and England's law. He could not be considered a Natural Born Citizen as known by and as intended by the framers.
istead of litigating this right now, we should be putting steps in place to preclude non-us citizens from concealing their status in 2012.
And let the precedent be set?
And spend lots of time litigating the health care debacle, or any other crap that's coming?
How can a USURPER command our armed forces?
How can a USURPER sign any treaties with foreign governments?
How can a USURPER sign anything into law, let alone the health care monstrosity?
However, the present needs to be addressed as well in order to help secure that future.
what precident? We have no rules at all to stop this stuff.
If we focus on FL and texas to require production of a birth certificate then the two largest states are out of play for Obama in 2012.
what precident? We have no rules at all to stop this stuff.
If we focus on FL and texas to require production of a birth certificate then the two largest states are out of play for Obama in 2012.
The Founding Fathers clearly, explicitly must have known what the definition of a ‘natural born citizen’ was when they embedded Vattel’s Law of Nations into the Constitution by wording in Article I Section 8.
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