If The P-51 Mustang Had Not Been In WWII

January 18, 2010 | myknowledge

[myknowledge]

The North American P-51 Mustang has been heralded as the best Allied WWII fighter ever and made a significant contribution to the defeat of Nazi Germany and the Luftwaffe.

With over 15,500 of them built, in all variants, this aircraft found its way into the European, CBI and Pacific theaters.

Powered by a Packard-built Rolls Royce Merlin V-1650 V-12 piston engine, drawing ~1700 hp, the P-51 reached speeds of 700 km/h, and with a pair of drop tanks, it had the range to escort bombers from the UK to Berlin and back, from Iwo Jima to the Japanese home islands and back.

Packing six .50 cal Browning M2 machine guns with over 1600 rounds of ammo, the Mustang had enough firepower to rip any enemy fighter into shreds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddtqJImF5Qc

I'm sure that you aviation fans know a lot more about the P-51, but I have started this thread because I wanted to ask this question:

What if the P-51 Mustang had not been in WWII?

My response to that is maybe the U.S. 8th AF would have to compensate using P-38s (fork-tailed devils) and probably late mark RAF Spitfires.

This would have meant more bomber casualties and losses from German AAA and Luftwaffe Bf 109s, Fw 190s and Me 262s. More of them could have been airborne due to the aircraft plants not being bombed.

[myknowledge]

What do you think?

[Doogle]

I have a few P-51 vids as my favorites saved on YT.....

this one is way to short, but I view it several times at each visit...(like now)..enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku2IxdkoXSw

[tina07]

My father was an airplane mechanic, CBI

In loving memory of my father,Joseph J. Magaraci, Sgt., Airplane Mechanic 747, 10/16/42 - 12/17/45 10th AF, 311thFG, 528th FS China-Burma-India, Asiatic-Pacific Service Medal, Good Conduct Medal and WWII Victory Medal. b. 2/20/23,Corona, Queens; d. 11/01/85, West Milford, NJ

[HospiceNurse]

I think the less attractive p-47 had more kills.

[tina07]

My father ~ second one in from the left :)

[Doogle]

..and if your a P-51 fan, you crave that sound......
this one is one of the better vids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzaEmkgfK58

[tina07]

My father, far right, in Shanghai October 1945

[myknowledge]

Well, more ground target kills.

Also, the Allies would have fielded the late model P-47N Jug.

[Doogle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ziqo0XE8GA

[Doogle]

...the role the 51 played escorting the bombing runs was the end for the Luftwaffe

[RVN Airplane Driver]

I have a few hours in the P-51....what a magnificent airplane in the air, but a real challenge until airborne.

[myknowledge]

I know the role the P-51 Mustang in the ETO contributed to the demise of the Luftwaffe, but what I'm saying is, how could the Allies continue the air war in the ETO without the P-51 Mustang?

[Doogle]

...it probably would have be dragged out for a few more years

[Doogle]

...someday I’d hope to be able to tell the difference between the two (Merlin)

[Doogle]

I think the Allison engine has a slightly higher pitch to it...(Merlin here) nice clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2nlGN6aS8g&NR=1&feature=fvwp

[BERRYKAT]

By 44-45 the Thunderbolt was refined (p47G-10 +15) to increase speed, range and maneuverability to near the extent of the Mustang. Furthermore the Mustang was an easy kill when it took fire as opposed to the Thunderbolt which was more inclined to take damage and return in kind and bring the pilot and plane back alive. Aerial tactics were also advanced by Gabreski and Yeager that were very effective in dispatching the Luftwaffe.

[myknowledge]

Furthermore the Mustang was an easy kill when it took fire as opposed to the Thunderbolt which was more inclined to take damage and return in kind and bring the pilot and plane back alive.

I thought the Mustang could take the same level of damage as the Jug, and its Merlin V-12 engine could lose a couple of cylinders and keep running, like the Jug's R-2800 Double Wasp 18 cylinder radial could take the same damage.

Aerial tactics were also advanced by Gabreski and Yeager that were very effective in dispatching the Luftwaffe.

The same thing could be said for the pilots in the PTO, where they easily dispatched the JAAF / IJN.

[dancusa]

Thanks for the link Doogle. I just spent a lot of time watching the YT videos of “Bud” Anderson. The best P-51 pilot of WW2. Excellent history of his narrative of combat dogfights. Amazing pilot.

[Quiller]

Interesting question. On one hand, Western (esp. U.S.) war technology and industry would likely have come up with something like the P-51 at some point -- that is how the Allies won the war. Not (sadly) through superior war fighting skills but through simply overwhelming the Axis by producing more,fielding more, supplying more, and repairing more. (IIRC, the casualty ratio in the European theater during late '44/early '45 was something like 2.27:2 -- in the Germans' favor. As much as I hate to admit it, that superiority was also present in the air, where German pilots were generally more highly skilled than their allied counterparts.

Had the Germans had air superiority in June 1944, the Allied landing might never have been attempted. A key reason for the Allies' domination in the air was the Luftwaffe had been decimated. During the preceding year, Allied bombing strikes had forced the Germans to react with air intercepts. This drew the German fighters into direct battle with the P-51, and generally attrited nearly irreplaceable pilots and machines. Results of the Strategic Bombing Survey generally reveal that the Germans were effective at continuing production in bombed-out factories, albeit at a lower level. In some cases, industrial areas were left in partial rubble so that aerial observation would overlook the factory as a bombing target. In his book, Adolf Galland talked about sections of the Me 262 being manufactured in mines and tunnels, for assembly elsewhere.

Which comes to another point -- had the Germans had more time, and more producton opportunity, their technological achievements might have held sway as well; considerable evidence points to German innovation outstripping that of the Allies in many areas (for all the "yeah, but . . ." proponents who point to nuclear options, I concede, except that the Germans were developing nuclear weapons as well, with the hindrance of being bombed a whole bunch thrown into the mix.)

So yes, the P-51 was an important link in the Allies' winning the European war in that it opened the door for U.S. and British soldiers to pour into mainland Europe from the west, for Allied bombers to interrupt German production, for Allied soldiers to move against German forces which were pinned in place by roving ground attack aircraft looking for movement.

Besides, I think the P-51 is one of the coolest planes ever.