MINES SINK FIVE MORE SHIPS, FOUR OWNED BY NEUTRALS (11/20/39)

Microfiche-New York Times archives, McHenry Library, U.C. Santa Cruz | 11/20/39 | Raymond Daniell

[Homer_J_Simpson]

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[Homer_J_Simpson]

Free Republic University, Department of History presents World War II Plus 70 Years: Seminar and Discussion Forum
First session: September 1, 2009. Last date to add: September 2, 2015.
Reading assignment: New York Times articles delivered daily to students on the 70th anniversary of original publication date. (Previously posted articles can be found by searching on keyword “realtime”.)
To add this class to or drop it from your schedule notify Admissions and Records (Attn: Homer_J_Simpson) by freepmail. Those on the Realtime +/- 70 Years ping list are automatically enrolled. Course description, prerequisites and tuition information is available at the bottom of Homer’s profile.

[Homer_J_Simpson]

Winston S. Churchill, The Gathering Storm

[Homer_J_Simpson]

New ‘Weapon Seen – 1-3
‘Negro’ Baby of Lost Liner Becomes White After Bath – 3
Canadian Cardinal Urges We Avoid War – 4
Incidents in European Conflict – 4
British Halt Italian Liner As Nazis Hint Retaliation – 4
‘Old 7th’ Marksmen Test New Garand Rifle, Firing 32 Shots a Man a Minute on Range – 5
18 Needy Youths Get Scholarship Funds – 6

[abb]

http://www.onwar.com/chrono/1939/nov39/f20nov39.htm

Dutch down German plane
Monday, November 20, 1939 www.onwar.com

In Holland... A German airplane is shot down by Dutch aircraft.

From Berlin... Hitler issues a second directive for the attack on the west.

In Occupied Czechoslovakia... SS troops are reportedly in control of Prague.

In Britain... Luftwaffe planes start parachuting mines into the Thames estuary. Meanwhile, the minesweeper HMS Mastiff is blown up while attempting to recover a German magnetic mine in a fishing net.

[abb]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/0,9263,7601391120,00.html

TIME
Table of Contents: November 20, 1939

[PzLdr]

The M-1 Garand. One of only two infantry weapons [if you include the M-2 .50 cal. heavy machinegun] we had that was superior to a German counterpart [and after the debut of the Stg. 44, only in quantity].

[Homer_J_Simpson]

A small "invading force" was driven into Long Island Sound just before noon today as the result of five hours of "concentrated artillery fire" from the 75-millimeter guns of the 104th Field Artillery, New York National Guare, supporting a theoretical infantry brigade at Camp Upton.

I hear the Germans had entire theoretical divisions late in the war, which Hitler personally directed in the final defense of the Fatherland.

The reason why no concentrated fire was directed at the enemy was because so many hunters were in the field. Although warning had been given for them to stay clear of the reservtion many failed to heed the posted signs.

A little incoming will liven up your deer hunt.

[C19fan]

Noticed the Garand demonstration in the article too. Curious as your opinion regarding the submachine guns? How did the Thompson compare to the Nazi guns?

[C19fan]

75-millimeter guns

Guessing those were French models from the World War I era. Very obsolete by the outbreak of WW II.

[PzLdr]

Better than the MP 40 in hitting power [.45 ACP vs. 9mm], but one of the few cases where we over engineered, and the Germans didn't. So there were a LOT more MP 40s than Thompsons [even after they were simplified. Plus the Germans tended to issue their troops a lot more semi-auto weapons than we did [and a lot more handguns, including the P-38].

But the critical difference was the machine gun. The MG 42 was the best machine gun of the war. Period. The MG 34 wasn't far behind. This allowed the Germans to build an entire offensive infantry doctrine around those guns. Made them much more dangerous on offense AND defense, since they issued a lot more machine guns to their small infantry units than we did.

[C19fan]

Watching History channel the MG34 was developed by the Germans due to the restrictions of the Versailles Treaty. They came up with the innovative barrel changing system.

[ichabod1]

The Thompson Submachine Gun (Tommy Gun) is a classic firearm. Carefully cast and molded, it is a beautiful piece.

The MP-40, (Grease Gun) was made out of stamped metal pieces and indeed looked like a grease gun. Nowhere near as nice as the Thompson, it was a helluva lot cheaper and there were a helluva lot more of them made. As far as I know they were reasonably equivalent for short range killing. I don’t know how they compared in terms of reliability and maintainability.

[ichabod1]

The Brits managed to lose 600 men against a theoretical opfor during a practice invasion before D-day.

Maybe we should not be allowed to reference future events in our discussions here. Nah, that might be interesting, but it would suck.

[PAR35]

Maybe we should not be allowed to reference future events in our discussions here.

Many of us know at least some level of detail of the history of the period, so the references don't really serve as spoilers. And the references help those who are new to the topics sort out truth from propaganda; foresight from foolishness.

[ichabod1]

Oh, I agree. It’s kind of fun to put on imaginary blinders and think, what if I didn’t know what was coming next, but I can see that we wouldn’t want to run the thread like that.

The reason I like this, though, is because I’ve become aware of how living history unfolds one day at a time, and if things happen three or four days apart, in history that’s like happening at the same time, but when you’re living it, three days is a long time.

[Homer_J_Simpson]

Maybe we should not be allowed to reference future events in our discussions here.

I agree with you guys. Part of the fun here, as well as the educational value, is speculating as to how things going on "today" affect or compare with later events. There was a lot of discussion of the Polish campaign before the war started. The invasion of Poland had barely begun before Case Yellow and Barbarossa came up. That leads into the topic of post-war Europe. The Times articles keep us grounded in the real-time history. Limiting discussion to those stories would reduce the quality of the experience. It would also be about impossible to enforce.

[PAR35]

It would also be about impossible to enforce.

You could send your 'Elite Guards' after us.

[abb]

Psssst! I know how it’s going to turn out and who wins. I’ll tell you for ten dollah.

ROFLMAO!!!

[abb]

Wasn’t the M-60 design an MG-42 copycat?

[Homer_J_Simpson]

You could send your 'Elite Guards' after us.

Ve haf vays of delimiting zee discussion.