Posted on 11/01/2009 4:14:13 PM PST by killermosquito
I just experienced virtualization in a computer lab environment. The PCs use VMWare Workstation and have a virtual machine with Windows XP Pro and Office 2007 and another virtual machine with Windows XP Pro and Office 200. I'm thinking very seriously about purchasing VMWare Workstation or possibly installing equivalent open source virtualization software. My goal is to upgrade my Dell (Inspiron 530 Intel Core2 processor Q6600 (2.40Ghz 1066FSB) w/Quad Core Technology and 8MB cache and 4GB DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz) with Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit and install virtualization as well. But, before I take the plunge I have many questions about virtualization.
1. Out of the free versions of virtualization software what do you recommend that is as safe, secure, and reliable as VMWare Workstation that can be installed on a PC?
2. Is the "host" the operating system on which VMWare Workstation is installed (in my case it will be Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit)?
3. Would you call a virtual machine a "client?"
4. Can I have Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit as the host (on which I install VMWare Workstation) AND install Windows XP Pro 32 bit as a virtual machine? In other words, can 32 bit and 64 bit operating systems exist on the same PC using virtualization?
5. Can I have Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit as the host (on which I install VMWare Workstation) AND install either Ubuntu 64 or 32 bit as a virtual machine?
6. What is a "hypervisor?"
7. Which is better? Having a dual-boot setup or using virtual machines?
8. Is it possible to create a copy of a virtual machine and on it install different software? For example, suppose I have Windows 7 as the host and I install Office 2007 on it. Can I create a virtual machine that consists of Windows 7 and Office 2010? Then, at some point, make the Windows 7 with Office 2010 the host instead of a virtual machine?
9. Is it possible to restore a PC with a copy of a virtual machine?
10. How would you backup and restore a virtual machine?
11. If I have a virtual machine and I access files on the "C" drive do all of the virtual machines have access to the same files on the "C" drive? Say, for example, I create a Word document and save it to the hard drive as a .doc file. Then I open a virtual machine consisting of Ubuntu and Open Office. Can I open the same document and navigate to it in the same way? In other words, is the file always accessible to all virtual machines as though the path is the same?
12. I have multiple users on the PC and Windows XP is set up with a separate login for each family member. Would I continue doing this or perhaps create a virtual machine for each person?
13. Do virtual machines share software? For example, If I have Windows 7 Ultimate and Office 2007 installed and running as the host and I create a virtual machine running Windows XP would I have to reinstall Office 2007 in this virtual machine?
14. Can I make a copy of a virtual machine and then install additional software on it to make sure that it is compatible and that no problems occur with the new software, if there are problems revert back to the original virtual machine?
15. Are the virtual machines running on partitions and if so what about drive mapping considerations?
16. Do you have any recommendations? Are there any questions I havent thought of but should have?
17. Can a copy of a virtual machine essentially serve as a backup of the virtual machine?
18. Is it possible to remote-desktop into a virtual machine?
19. What can you tell me about VirtualBox: http://www.virtualbox.org/ Is it as good as VMWare Worskstation or is it only for servers?
20. I'm also thinking about installing VNC or some other remote desktop software so that I can login to my PC from remote locations.
1. VNC has been around for quite awhile and it is free. Is it safe?
2. What remote desktop software do you suggest (freeware or paid)?
3. Are there other freeware versions that I should consider other than VNC or would it be safer to purchase this type of software? If I should purchase remote desktop access software which version should I buy?
4. Is it possible to remote-desktop into a virtual machine?
I have a second hard drive that is the same size as my primary hard drive. I have not installed it yet but plan to when I install Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit.
1. Should I set up a Raid Array or use the second drive for my files and the primary drive for my operating system and virtual machines?
Ping.
virtual box will run anything I have tried as a virtual machine. I have run Vista and XP
VirtualBox.org has a free virtualization environment. Will try to answer some of your other questions.
It depends.
1. Should I set up a Raid Array or use the second drive for my files and the primary drive for my operating system and virtual machines?
With two drives you can only use RAID to(1) make one large drive or a(2) copy of the first drive.
(1)Most people don't need one really large logical drive made out of two hard drives.(2) Making a copy would cut your drive space in half. You have only the size of one hard drive. This only important if you don't back up your drives.
Your last choice "use the second drive for my files and the primary drive for my operating system and virtual machines" This most likely won't use up much of the first drive.
I too found Sun’s free Virtual Box easy to use. The particular software you download depends on which machine you want to be the host and which you want to be virtualized. I have used Fedora Core 11 as the host and XP as the virtualized machine, because there’s a couple of programs in XP I like to have available at the same time. There were versions available which allowed you to have Windows operating systems as the host and Linux (or other Windows) systems as virtual machines. If you want full performance (as for games) for a program that runs under a particular system, you may not want to run it virtualized.
Sun VirtualBox is my choice, because you don’t need to create a virtual machine. You can just boot into your installation disk or an ISO image.
Most of your questions can be answered by downloading it and playing with it for 30 minutes.
What are you? Some kind of computer geek?
(Actually, I found your ?s interesting, so will be watching this thread.)
"Too many notes"
1) Yes, Virtualbox. http://www.virtualbox.org
2) Yes, the host is the OS on which the VMware is installed.
3) The usual term is ‘guest’.
4) Yes, they can.
5) Yes.
6) Hypervisor is the technical term for virtualization software like VMware, Parallels, Virtualbox, etc.
7) It depends on what you need it for. For instance, I use a virtual machine to run Photoshop in Linux, but if I want to do real 3d graphics work, I find it better to use a native windows installation, because virtual machines just don’t have the necessary oomph to get the big jobs done.
8) Yes. I don’t use VMware, so someone else will have to speak on that, but Virtualbox has something called a ‘snapshot’ that you can take of the operating system. So, you could take a snapshot with Office installed and use that.
9) Most likely no, since it’s virtualizing your hardware and wouldn’t include necessary drivers, etc for your real hardware.
10) I’ve never bothered, but there should be an option within whatever program you use to back them up.
11) Yes, you can do that. Virtualbox and Vmware do it in different ways, but it’s possible with all of them.
12) That would be a personal preference. You could do it either way.
13) No, they don’t. For all intents and purposes, the guest installation is a completely separate installation of the operating system. You can allow it access to certain files, as I said above, but it doesn’t share anything with the host operating system.
14) Yes, you can do this with the snapshots.
15) The disk files themselves would be located on a disk partition, yes. So, your partition would need to be big enough to hold whatever size you make the disk.
16) I do recommend Virtualbox and I prefer it to VMware. Other than that, I think you’re good in the questions department. :)
17) Essentially, yes, though I generally think of them as pretty much disposable.
18) I don’t know this one. Interesting question. I would imagine you could probably get VNC to work with it.
20) Okay, sounds good.
1) Yes, it is safe. Use a very good password though if you are going to make it available to the internet.
2) I use VNC. It’s free. Paying for software is overrated.
3) There are like 90 different VNC’s. They’re mostly the same. If you have an iPhone, I HIGHLY recommend Jaadu, which is expensive (like $30) but is the best mobile VNC client I’ve ever used.
4) Not so sure on that one...you’d probably want to play around with it.
As far as the RAID array goes, it’s up to you. Just remember that RAID isn’t a backup and doesn’t offer you protection from accidentally deleting files, etc.
When I install an extra drive, I just use it for files, but that’s me. :)
Question: Are you wanting the RDP for desktop access or remote management?
VMWare has good support for copies (clones) of virtual machines. There is a complete copy which lives a separate life, and a linked copy that takes very little space but requires original VM files (which is usually not a problem.)
Copies, especially linked ones, are very useful. For example, you can make a "gold" install of the OS and basic utilities, and then make a copy. Then whatever else you install into the copy will appear only in that copy, and the "gold" system that the copy is based on is unaffected.
1. Out of the free versions of virtualization software what do you recommend that is as safe, secure, and reliable as VMWare Workstation that can be installed on a PC?
I use VMWare Workstation for my basic virtualization needs at home. It's very reliable and has features that allow you to 'undo' your mistakes, as well as give a virtual machine more CPU or Memory to improve its performance. I've tried some of the Open Source stuff that's out there, they don't compare to VMWare IMO. (Others may disagree here, at this point it's all "preference" though.)
2. Is the "host" the operating system on which VMWare Workstation is installed (in my case it will be Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit)?
VMWare Workstation comes in 32 and 64 bit. If you're running Windows 7 in 64 bit mode, you'll see the best performance with VMWare Workstation 64 bit.
3. Would you call a virtual machine a "client?"
It's called a virtual machine.
4. Can I have Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit as the host (on which I install VMWare Workstation) AND install Windows XP Pro 32 bit as a virtual machine? In other words, can 32 bit and 64 bit operating systems exist on the same PC using virtualization?
In Windows7 you actually have two options. The first is you can download the Microsoft Virtual XP machine for Windows7 and install that, OR you can install VMWare Workstation and then build your own WindowsXP image. Speaking solely from my preference, I installed VMWare Workstation then built my own WindowsXP virtual machine. It's fairly easily done with VMWare Workstation.
5. Can I have Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit as the host (on which I install VMWare Workstation) AND install either Ubuntu 64 or 32 bit as a virtual machine?
Absolutely. 6. What is a "hypervisor?"
Wikipedia an excellent description of a Hypervisor and what it does. so I won't re-invent the wheel here.
7. Which is better? Having a dual-boot setup or using virtual machines?
The answer to this question is really based on what your needs are. Do you have a need to run more than one O/S at a time? If so, then Virtual Machines are the answer. If not, and if you want to get the maximum CPU, Memory and disk performance on your machine, then dual-boot is a good answer. It really depends on what you want to do. Note that there is a small performance hit with Virtual Machines which is largely dependent on the number of cpu cores in your machine, amount of memory, speed of disk, etc.. As a general rule, the performance hit of a virtual machine is about 10-15%. Some will claim that the performance penalty is lower, but what I'm citing is a general rule of thumb.
8. Is it possible to create a copy of a virtual machine and on it install different software? For example, suppose I have Windows 7 as the host and I install Office 2007 on it. Can I create a virtual machine that consists of Windows 7 and Office 2010? Then, at some point, make the Windows 7 with Office 2010 the host instead of a virtual machine?
You're thinking ahead, and this is a really good question. The great thing about virtual machines is, you can make as many copies of them as you want! I keep a "master copy" of all my virtual machines on a separate USB drive and copy them to my machine as needed. The 'master copy' of my machines contains the basic OS with only the features I want installed such as MS Office, some chat clients and other common software I'd normally use in them. What I do not keep in them is the anti-virus or anti-spyware tools as I install the most recent copies of them when I copy the virtual machine over.
9. Is it possible to restore a PC with a copy of a virtual machine?
Typically you need an original image of your system that can restore the boot sector and then the image first. I use Altiris to image my PC, so I can restore my PC quickly. Virtual machines can be copied back from a separate USB (1 Terrabyte) drive that I keep my virtual machines on. (Note: It's always a good practice to have a DVD backup of your virtual images too.)
10. How would you backup and restore a virtual machine?
I assume you mean that you want to keep changes to your virtual machine with this question. The answer to that is simple: Shut down the Virtual Machine (assumption: it's a VMWare virtual machine) then backup the directory that contains the virtual machine files to tape, dvd or a separate USB disk drive. If you want to just backup the DATA within the virtual machine, then you'll need to leave the virtual machine up and running so that you can backup the data from it to a separate USB disk drive, dvd, etc..
11. If I have a virtual machine and I access files on the "C" drive do all of the virtual machines have access to the same files on the "C" drive? Say, for example, I create a Word document and save it to the hard drive as a .doc file. Then I open a virtual machine consisting of Ubuntu and Open Office. Can I open the same document and navigate to it in the same way? In other words, is the file always accessible to all virtual machines as though the path is the same?
You're mixing two questions here, so let me try the first. If you have files on your "C:" drive that you want to share with other virtual machines of the same OS type (say, Windows 7 as the host machine and Windows XP as the virtual machine) then you'll need to setup a shared folder in VMWare workstation that both machines can see, to share files. This is easily done with VMWare Workstation. You can also just setup normal "shared folders" on both the host and client machine like you would with two pc's networked together and do it that way as well. I prefer setting up the shared folder in VMWare Workstation, but again this is a preference. There are two equally legitimate ways to do this task.
The second question was about sharing files between say Windows7 as the host machine, and Ubuntu as the 'virtual' machine. Again, there's two ways to do this. One is with the shared folder in VMWare Workstation. The other method would be to setup SAMBA on the Ubuntu virtual machine and export the folder so the Windows host machine could see it just as it would across a network. Both methods work, my preference is the VMWare shared folder because it's just faster.
12. I have multiple users on the PC and Windows XP is set up with a separate login for each family member. Would I continue doing this or perhaps create a virtual machine for each person?
Another great question and again it depends on what your wants/needs are here. You can certainly give them their own login's to the machine which would create their own folders on the Windows machine and allow them to share data with each other if you give each user permission to do so.
If you setup a virtual machine for each user, you'd need to create a login script for them in Windows to have it launch the virtual machine for them once they login. This gives each user of your machine their own "machine" and environment, HOWEVER you'll need to maintain each virtual machine for each user (think anti-virus updates, spyware updates, scanning, defragging, etc..) It's an interesting proposition setting up a VM for each user, but it seems to me it'd be a maintenance nightmare for you and you may be better off just giving each their own logon. Hopefully I gave you some food for thought here.
13. Do virtual machines share software? For example, If I have Windows 7 Ultimate and Office 2007 installed and running as the host and I create a virtual machine running Windows XP would I have to reinstall Office 2007 in this virtual machine?
Good question. The answer is you need to install whatever software you want to use inside each virtual machine, as they cannot share software between them. (See my answer above regarding making 'master copies' of virtual machines with the most common software components you use and then just copying and modifying them as needed later.)
14. Can I make a copy of a virtual machine and then install additional software on it to make sure that it is compatible and that no problems occur with the new software, if there are problems revert back to the original virtual machine?
Great question! This is the most common use for Virtual machines, ie: test boxes. For years I've routinely tested WindowsXP patches and hotfixes on my virtual XP machine before I put them "live" on my actual desktop. Just remember to keep an original 'master copy' on dvd/usb drive to revert back to, or use VMWare's rollback function.
15. Are the virtual machines running on partitions and if so what about drive mapping considerations?
On a Windows7 machine such as you're going to run, Virtual Machines reside in their own directories, not partitions. Unless you're going to be running Virtual Machines from a network drive or a removable USB drive, there are no drive mapping considerations. If you *do* run a Virtual Machine from a removable or network drive, you'll need to execute the VM from that drive/directory. Easy peasy.
16. Do you have any recommendations? Are there any questions I havent thought of but should have?
I'll let you know if I think of any, but so far you're asking all the right ones. Tells me you're thinking this through pretty well. If you have others drop me a freepmail.
17. Can a copy of a virtual machine essentially serve as a backup of the virtual machine?
Yes, answered above. (Keep a master copy on a DVD or USB drive for safekeeping.)
18. Is it possible to remote-desktop into a virtual machine?
Absolutely, and there's a number of ways to do it. If the virtual machine is Windows XP, you can use Windows Remote Desktop, VNC works well too. Whichever you're most comfortable with. I do something a little different in that all my XP virtual machines have remote desktop available via a web browser. I can connect to any of them from my home network or remotely through my high speed connection and a web page that front ends my login to them. I simply pick the machine I want from a web page and login to them. Each of these methods is well supported and fairly simple to do. Documentation on how to do this is readily available on VMWare's site, or any number of virtualization user groups on the net via google search.
19. What can you tell me about VirtualBox: http://www.virtualbox.org/ Is it as good as VMWare Worskstation or is it only for servers?
I have to let someone else answer this one as it's been awhile since I've looked at VirtualBox. At the time I looked at it, it wasn't as full featured and easy to use as VMWare. If you're a geek and like to tinker and have patience, try VirtualBox. If you want something that "just works" then go for VMWware Workstation. (Note: I've used VMWare since 1998 in both Workstation and Server forms, so I may be a little biased here.)
20. I'm also thinking about installing VNC or some other remote desktop software so that I can login to my PC from remote locations.
VNC or Windows built in remote desktop works just fine.
1. VNC has been around for quite awhile and it is free. Is it safe?
VNC is safe as long as you do not allow external (internet) access to your physical or virtual machines. As long as you don't directly open the ports for VNC on your home router, you're fine. VNC sends information in clear text across the network which you don't want someone from the outside (ie: internet) seeing. You can also purchase a copy that uses SSL encryption which would make it safe to remote to your machines across the internet, and encrypt your traffic. (Note: The above is an over-simplification of a technical issue in which one needs to encrypt their data on the internet and protect themselves. The bottom line is this: If you plan on accessing your physical or virtual machines via the Internet, make sure you use a secure client that uses SSL or other well known encryption to protect yourself from getting hacked, and your data from being seen.)
2. What remote desktop software do you suggest (freeware or paid)?
Depends on what you're going to do. If you're only going to access your VM's from your home network and you do not open up your firewall or router to allow outside traffic to directly access your machines, then the free version of VNC or windows Remote Desktop is fine. If you're going to access your physical or virtual machines via the internet, find good software that uses SSL or other encryption and use that (paid or otherwise.)
3. Are there other freeware versions that I should consider other than VNC or would it be safer to purchase this type of software? If I should purchase remote desktop access software which version should I buy?
There's alot of good, free remote desktop software out there, consider what I said above on how you intend to use it and from where (ie: your own network, or accessing your machines via the internet.)
Sorry for the length, but you asked some very good questions and I wanted to answer you as fully as I could without getting too technical. Hope you found this useful. :-)
bttt
If you’re serious about it -and I’m not so sure you are, I’d go with Server 2008 R2 on a RAID 10 for all your main apps then virtualize everything else via Hypervisor. Seriously, you have to have a valid requirement to virtualize. Unless you’re running server suites, using multi-platform apps or doing training virtualization likely isn’t for you.
I would have made the same post as usconservative did, although not so eloquently. LOL The only thing I would have changed is I would substitute VirtualBox for VMWare. And it would be for no other reason than I’ve used it for several years, I’m comfortable it, it’s reliable, and after Sun bought it, it became flush with new features and options.
usconservative, a most excellent response, btw.
Also, take a peek at http://virtualboximages.com and http://virtualboximages.com/ovfappliances and, http://open-ovf.sourceforge.net. These offer free images and appliances that operate across the VM range, as long as you use .vdi’s and .ovf’s.
They have pre-built .vdi’s for Ubuntu and many other open source OS’s as well as applications. There are also tutorials listed on the Free vdi page itself, http://virtualboximages.com/Free.VirtualBox.vdi.Downloads .
As far as the question on having two disks and a RAID array, here is an explanation of the different RAID configurations and what they offer...
* RAID 0 (striped disks) distributes data across multiple disks in a way that gives improved speed at any given instant. If one disk fails, however, all of the data on the array will be lost, as there is neither parity nor mirroring. In this regard, RAID 0 is somewhat of a misnomer, in that RAID 0 is non-redundant. A RAID 0 array requires a minimum of two drives. A RAID 0 configuration can be applied to a single drive provided that the RAID controller is hardware and not software (i.e. OS-based arrays) and allows for such configuration. This allows a single drive to be added to a controller already containing another RAID configuration when the user does not wish to add the additional drive to the existing array. In this case, the controller would be set up as RAID only (as opposed to SCSI only (no RAID)), which requires that each individual drive be a part of some sort of RAID array.
* RAID 1 mirrors the contents of the disks, making a form of 1:1 ratio realtime backup. The contents of each disk in the array are identical to that of every other disk in the array. A RAID 1 array requires a minimum of two drives. RAID 1 mirrors, though during the writing process copy the data identically to both drives, would not be suitable as a permanent backup solution, as RAID technology by design allows for certain failures to take place.
* RAID 3 or 4 (striped disks with dedicated parity) combines three or more disks in a way that protects data against loss of any one disk.Fault tolerance is achieved by adding an extra disk to the array and dedicating it to storing parity information. The storage capacity of the array is reduced by one disk. A RAID 3 or 4 array requires a minimum of three drives: two to hold striped data, and a third drive to hold parity data.
* RAID 5 (striped disks with distributed parity) combines three or more disks in a way that protects data against the loss of any one disk. It is similar to RAID 3 but the parity is not stored on one dedicated drive, instead parity information is interspersed across the drive array. The storage capacity of the array is a function of the number of drives minus the space needed to store parity. The maximum number of drives that can fail in any RAID 5 configuration without losing data is only one. Losing two drives in a RAID 5 array is referred to as a “double fault” and results in data loss.
* RAID 6 (striped disks with dual parity) combines four or more disks in a way that protects data against loss of any two disks.
* RAID 1+0 (or 10) is a mirrored data set (RAID 1) which is then striped (RAID 0), hence the “1+0” name. A RAID 10 array requires a minimum of two drives, but is more commonly implemented with 4 drives to take advantage of speed benefits.
* RAID 0+1 (or 01) is a striped data set (RAID 0) which is then mirrored (RAID 1). A RAID 0+1 array requires a minimum of four drives: two to hold the striped data, plus another two to mirror the first pair.
I use a two disk RAID on one of my laptops. It’s a RAID 1, one drive “mirrors” the other. This has proven to be an effective data loss prevention tool for me, although it’s not foolproof. Another benefit is that there is no loss of performance. In the 6 years I’ve had it, I’ve lost 4 drives, as I used it while mobile in bumpy, dusty, cold, and very hot areas. I change out the bad drive, swap the jumpers on the mirrored one, and insert the new disk, and then initialize it, which copies an image of the other right over, and voila, I’m back in business in about 20 minutes. You don’t need to swap jumpers, I do that to rotate the drives FIFO. You don’t have to put in a new drive, you can keep on working just fine with only one. Any other RAID configuration than 1, will hit your performance.
What usconservative said about making “master” copies, is the best way to go. I always make a copy as soon as I have set up a new vdi or VM with an OS, and then another after I have installed all the software and tweaked it. Although he’s probably smarter than I am with not putting another 60-200 mb worth of A/V and Firewall on it. doh! (I never thought about that)
BTW, he mentioned it, but I want to emphasize it, Windows 7 Pro and Ultimate are able to run MS’s free virtualization software and free Windows XP inside of Win7. And, surprise, it runs pretty darn good, too, not much of a performance hit as I would imagined.
Good luck.
I run the WindowsXP virtual machine on Windows7 as well as VMWare, but not both at the same time. My preference between the two happens to be VMWare, but only because I tend to work from home and want to isolate my work traffic via VPN from my normal internet traffic. That is, I can establish a VPN connection to work and route traffic for my email, fileserver, softphone (voip) traffic to the VPN connection inside the virtual machine, while maintaining a separate internet connection on the physical machine - but still using the same network card. Since each machine (physical and virtual) has their own IP address, I can split the traffic, which I cannot do with Windows7 and the virtual XP that microsoft provides.
Other than that one key difference for me and the way I work, your observation of there being no noticeable difference in speed with Microsoft's virtual XP on Windows 7 is spot on.
I'm going to give VirtualBox another look-see, it's probably been too long since I have.
It's conceivable that Wave could make it possible for FR threads to be summarized into more coherent form. It could be a solution for the problem of the last poster - I prefer to hit the articles when they're first posted, rather than joining late into a conversation, because I tend to get involved in a long analysis of an issue - and if the thread is already old, by the time I actually hit "Post" people have moved on and nobody will ever notice my brilliant post at Reply #162.
In answer to your question, I am a computer geek wannabe. I spent the last 20 years as a college admin tinkering mainly with MS Access. Created and sold a few dbs, always thinking that at some point I would have those skills to fall back on if I ever lost my job. Now, I’ve lost my job and I’ve discovered that those skills aren’t in demand. I have a passion for the techie stuff and if I’m going to have to find a new job I want it to be a job doing what I’m most passionate about.
I’m trying to learn all I can as quickly as I can to make myself more employable. I’m teaching some MS Office classes at a small tech. college and also at a computer training center but not enough to pay the bills and no benefits.
I just downloaded the Express (free) version of Visual Studio and I’m hoping that my VBA knowledge will enable me to hit the ground running so that the learning curve won’t be too steep. I actually have 3 ideas for software that I think could have some commercial appeal. What I really hope to do is make the creation of them a reality so that I never have to work again (sort of a pun here because if you love what you do it isn’t work!).
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