I helped Richard Heene plan a balloon hoax

Gawker.com ^ | 10/17/2009

[Oztrich Boy]

I’d say 10-20 lbs lift tops - not enough

[steve86]

Refer to the calculations in any of the original threads. Around 108 pounds lift at MSL, maybe 90 at density altitude. If memory serves the balloon contained approx 1,500 cubic feet of helium when full.

[bboop]

I am totally on-board with boundaries, and I keep the She-Beast (in me) ready to bring out when needed on the kids I teach. But I see really bad parenting a lot in folks who just do not understand how to be parents, but are. That’s what I am seeing in this family.

[DoughtyOne]

I realize there are bad parents out there. I’m sure you do see it. Some of the kids will survive it and be a fairly decent adult. Others will melt down and become terrible adults, and inflict this on their kids.

Some of the parents really think they are the best parents too. They have read all the books. They have taken the admonitions to heart, don’t ever raise their voice, never say no, remain supportive no matter what the kid wants to do. The defend them against every other adult. The kid is always right and the other adults are just unfair or unreasoned. At least that’s what they think.

The parents in this family seem to be media whores, among other things. It’s a real shame.

I agree with your premise.

[DoughtyOne]

Sorry I didn’t proof read that better.

[Lockbar]

Take the three kids away and give them to Octa-Mom. She couldn’t do any worse than these two wierdos.

[Gondring]

The sheriff is sticking to his opinion that it was a real emergency. Guess he doesn’t want to admit he was punked.

Thanks for playing. You can pick up your Rice-a-Roni now.

It always amazes me that so many perps--and FReepers--fall for the nice, dumb cop routine, but I'm glad they do. I'm especially glad it worked on these bozos so the D.A. will now likely have a good case.

[Carley]

I’m still heartsick at the exploitation of these children.

As a parent I would give my life to protect my kids....

one of mine lives in CO and she remarked to me about the storm chasing/tornado chasing stuff. Mom, you never want us to drive out if it’s raining. (exaggerating of course) but she said there were men in her office with tears in their eyes worrying about the little boy.

We tend to attribute our own values onto others.

[Gondring]

It had plenty of helium to lift the boy off at a density altitude of 5,500 ft, contrary to my initial take on that matter. Volume/lift calculations confirm repeatedly.

As did actual data from the recovered device--and the kid's true mass of less than 3/4 what many here were estimating.

I'm speculating that the device was originally covered with aluminum foil (following the father's ideas) but that it came off in flight. Anyone hear anything like that? I wonder if that would be the missing 18 pounds.

[Gondring]

No, the idiots are the news media, rescuers, and public who failed to immediately grasp that it was physically impossible for a helium balloon of that capacity to lift the kid off the ground, let alone to an altitude of hundreds or thousands of feet.

I'm curious...Now that it has been demonstated to be feasible, based on the kid's mass, the balloon's mass, and the helium capacity, does it mean you're an idiot?

I was suspicious that the cargo platform didn't sag more, but I realize that it wasn't a giveaway without more details on the craft's structure. And I have to give the guy credit for his design; it was pretty durn good.

[steve86]

I wonder — are the seams between individual sheets of mylar glued or ironed (like model aircraft coverings). They did a pretty good job (in the sense of an amateur’s prototype) of holding pressure. It would be a challenge to figure out the shape of the individual sheets without some kind of design tool. Anyone know what kind of framework (if any) the pressure bag structure has? I’m thinking of building a small one and sending my girls’ pet butterflies aloft (just kidding). Definitely will include a carbon composite baggage compartment.

[The Comedian]

[Gondring]

Duct tape was a component used for the cardboard and thin- plywood platform, from what was said in the press conference. I didn't see the whole thing, nor much other coverage, but there was an elegance in the design for an amateur, especially when you look at the performance upon collapse of the one section--the airfoil cross-section worked to provide lift.

Interesting coincidence...I was researching Padre Adelir Antonio de Carli, Larry Walters, Jason Ackerman/Sara Rydman, etc., when this incident with Falcon Heene went down. All of a sudden, my online searches started to lead to news stories about the "flying saucer with the 6-year-old," so the calculations of required helium for liftoff and how quickly death occurs from helium were fresh in my mind.

[Finny]

Where was it demonstrated to be feasible? On paper, or in flight test? Were altitudes included? If it truly was, then yes, I'll admit to being an idiot.

And would also agree that the guy was a good designer.

[Gondring]

Too bad the local news didn’t have an infrared camera. That could have helped relax the national audience.

I don't know that the kid's body would have continued to radiate heat for long enough after his death to have allowed them to definitively show that he wasn't in there. Plus, the sunny day on a foil/plastic object would have confused things.

Besides, if they did see an IR signature, there would still be those who would have hoped that he could have survived with "the cold suppressing his metabolism," and "a potential pocket of ambient air in the 'gondola' (i.e., platform)," etc.

[GVnana]

Oh damn! I just hope the kid doesn’t go through life as “puke boy.” His father needs some, er, uh, discipline.

[Gene Eric]

Another FRiend mentioned the material may have also prevented meaningful IR results.

BTW, I assumed the carriage under the belly of the balloon was isolated from the helium filled body since it wouldn’t have made sense for the boy to crawl into the pre-inflated craft. I don’t know how cold it gets at a few thousand ft (or whatever altitude the balloon ascended) but I figured the kid was enduring the temperatures.

[Finny]

Have either of you heard from any balloon experts that this was feasible?

I found this on a CBS news report: While the balloon was in the air, the sheriff's department reached out to a university professor who determined that a balloon of that size would support a child the size of Falcon, Alderden said. The balloon could probably handle a payload of about 80 pounds. The child weighed 37 pounds.

I also googled a bunch of words like "balloon boy hoax feasability lift capacity" and hence to a lot of discussion forums in various places. Several posters who claimed hands-on experience with building and flying helium and hot air balloons stated flatly that it was absurd to even consider the kid could have been in it. No one claiming hands-on experience took any other view. Learned a few things -- such as an eight-foot-diameter helium weather balloon has a payload of 12 pounds, though whether or not that considers its decreased lifting power due to the altitude near Denver no one calculated. And a few other things:

1. The elevation in Colorado means the air is less dense, so the math for calculating helium capacity would have to be adjusted. Several posters noted that it would take more helium than at lower elevations.

2. One writer noted that one inflates helium to about half capacity for high flights because it nearly doubles in volume as the altitude increases. If it was filled to full capacity it would shoot straight up in the air and burst.

3. So the original caluculation of 80 lbs lift is immediately cut to 40 lbs, if it's correct about the helium expanding at higher altitudes.

4. At 40 lbs lift, you then have to consider the weight of the balloon and the structure. Mylar is pretty light, but estimating in your mind that whole mass of it wadded up and held in your arms -- what, three pounds? Two pounds? The glue or whatever material was used to put the pieces togehter to make such a wildly-shaped thing? We're not talking one sheet of mylar, we're talking a whole lotta pannels connected together somehow, and the material to do that weighs something. Then there is the weight of whatever he used for structure inside. So lets be easy, and say five pounds? Seven pounds so far, just guessing, but it's pretty common sense guessing. As for duct tape and tinfoil ... use your head. The stuff is HEAVY. Have you ever been around guys who fly models? I can tell you that an extra layer of paint, let alone a layer of tinfoil or duct tape!!!! -- adds weight that would surprise you.

Then there's the hardware on board. It at least included a "utility box," as mentioned by the father (remember this was supposedly an experimental craft for scientific missions, and as such would have to have monitors and such on board), and one story said he thought maybe his kid crawled into the utility box, as clearly there was no gondola attached. Batteries are notoriously heavy. So lets be really cheap and credit the guy for sinking dough into very expensive ultra-light stuff, and say the utility box weighed three pounds. So now the thing will probalbly weight ten pounds, so its lift capacity of 40 lbs is now 30 lbs. That's if the guy really knows what he's doing, but is there someplace he said he actually built/assembled the actual balloon, or (as in one story), did he say that he had purchased it ready-made? Is he a novice dabbler or a seriously accomplished designer-engineer?

5. The kid was 36 lbs; his jeans, shirts, and shoes were probably another two pounds. Educated, common sense guesses. COMMON SENSE is the key phrase. You think a baloon where its passenger, who is not provided with an acutal passenger compartment, could well more than triple the thing's "normal" weight, and not disturb the balance and equilibrium of the thing and not be OBVIOUS to any person actually watching????

There are two things going on. The first is entertaining and amusing: the media hysteria and all the people -- the vast majority of opinions, in fact -- that are focusing on the parents and are high and mighty about what horrible people they are.

The second is sobering and disturbing: the fact that rescue officials spent God only knows how much in equipment and time on the public dime to rescue a unicorn.

I don't care about the MSM side, and the huffing and puffing about terrible parents. There have always been, and God willing will always be, terrible parents, and neighbors who will shake their fingers at them. A good time was had by all in the fiasco, and the only losers were the news networks who weren't able to run their sponsors' ads to generate income to cover the expenses of the live remotes and all that crap. But it was probably worth it because their viewers had a blast. It really would have been nice, though, to see an actual helium balloon hands-on expert talk to those sensible people who took one look at the video and snorted, "That thing couldn't lift a 5-lb bag of potatoes!" Had they done that, the story might have embarassed a lot of media people within 30 minutes, but again, no harm, no foul financially.

On the other hand, that people in charge of tens of thousands of dollars and manpower hours directed toward rescue efforts, those officials, have the financial responsibility to look into such minor and boring scientific details, and you would think especially so when it was immediately noticeable to common sense types that this thing probably couldn't float a car batterly, let alone a fully-dressed 36-lb six year old boy!

But those rescuers get such a great opportunity to showboat in front of cameras, microphones, and news babes and metro-sexed reporters.

[steve86]

The density altitude adjustment is only 15% give or take. It was taken into account in the calculations, as pilots are prone to do.

[Finny]

Now, wait a minute. You mean to tell me that THAT balloon, filled with helium, accounting an altitude adjustment, would lift the kid and all the otehr stuff on board? Have you ever been around helium balloons, for crying out loud????????? You really, honestly believe that that wimpy little 20-foot joke could lift a couple of cinderblocks any higher than 20 feet???? A woman who said she's a party planner wrote that mylar helium balloons do great at sea level, but in Denver, aren't even in play because the elevation makes them barely skim the ground. Now, maybe she's lying through her teeth. But I think it's more likely that horse sense is sadly lacking in way too many folks.

What about the weight of the utility box? Was that factored into the calculations "as pilots are prone to do"?

Where was the kid -- inside with the helium? REEEEEEELY? How was he expected to breathe? THE FATHER KNEW THE KID WASN'T ON BOARD, AND ANYONE WITH A LICK OF SENSE KNEW AS WELL.

What about capacity of the balloon, and the probability that they're never inflated to 100 percent capacity because they'd burst -- was that factored into the calculations? What percentage of the volume, then, was factored into the calculations "as pilots are prone to do"? I'LL BET IT WASNT FACTORED AT ALL, but assumed to be 100 percent capacity.

Use your own lyin' eyes and your common sense, PUH-LEEEZE!!!! If it was just mylar, then a single solid mass of 36 pounds inside of it would distorted the mylar of the balloon OR had to be supported by some kind of structure, plywood? And if so, how much did THAT weigh, and how did that affect its lift? How could the thing's flight dynamics NOT change with that significantly increased of a payload on board? And wouldn't tripling the payload rip the mylar panels apart at the seams because they were only built to withstand one fourth the weight? Was THAT factored into the calculations, or were they strictly done via cubic capacity and lift?

USE YOUR COMMON SENSE. Before the sherrif went squandering a bunch of dough on rescue efforts, he should have damned well listened to people who had to have been telling him ... "Er, chief ... that thing couldn't lift a car batter higher than a couple of stories."

The Fuji blimp is 80 feet long, and at sea level its gondola carries four passengers plus the two little tiny motors with propellers. An 80-foot CYLYNDER at sea level; blimps are cylindrical because the shape provides the most cubic capacity.

Heard from any hands-on balloonists on this? Or is the "density altitude adustment was taken into account" all you've got?