EMP Attack Could Wipe Out U.S.

NewsMax ^ | September 9, 2009 | By Ronald Kessler

[Fennie]

The federal government is doing "nothing" to protect against an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attack that could wipe out American civilization, Dr. Peter Vincent Pry, a leading expert on the subject, tells Newsmax.

For only $200 million to $400 million, the government could protect a key element of the power grid to keep electrical power from being wiped out for years, according to Dr. Pry, a former staff member of the congressional Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse Attack.

Yet neither Republicans nor Democrats have been willing to spend that small sum, says Pry, who is president EMPACT America, which is meeting in Niagara Falls, N.Y. this week to spotlight the scandal.

A single nuclear bomb exploded over the Midwest would generate an electromagnetic pulse that would destroy the chips that are the heart of every electronic device. While military and intelligence networks may be shielded against EMP, most of the rest of the country's technological infrastructure is not.

An EMP attack would wipe out personal computers and the internet. Cars would not start, gasoline pumps would not work, and airplanes could not take off.

[LucyT]

A search shows FRCC stands for Florida Reliability Coordinating Council. Check out the map at #180.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Reliability_Coordinating_Council

[Tijeras_Slim]

No, an EMP wave CANNOT extend very far beyond its energy source.

You are confusing SGEMP (Source Generated EMP) which is a very localized phenomena associated with an low altitude atmospheric burst and HEMP (High Altitude EMP) which can and does effect large areas as observed in the 50's and early 60's. SGEMP as a means of test detection at ground level was also tested in this time frame and was found that it drops off too fast.

And yes, I have worked on nuclear tests (all underground) and with folks who were involved with atmospheric testing.

[TalonDJ]

The electromagnetic pulse (EMP) from this test sent power line surges throughout Oahu, knocking out street lighting, blowing fuzes and circuit breakers, and triggering burglar alarms."

If you were reading the thread you would see he himself already posted from that. If you read more of it you would see this...

The radius for an effective satellite kill for the various prompt radiations produced by such a nuclear weapon in space was determined to be roughly 80 km.

Yeah it messed a few things up in Hawaii. So what? To be really effective you be much closer. There is a huge difference between 'fry some car alarms' and 'back to the stone age'.

[Tijeras_Slim]

Prompt radiation refers to the soft x-rays produced by the blast, not EMP.

[NELSON111]

The possibility of an EMP attack is just that. A possibility. Now, if you are saying that the EMP effect is fiction, then you are either incredibly ignorant, or being deliberately obtuse.

That's what I was thinking. We can argue as to the extent an EMP attack would cripple us...we can argue if it would ever happen...but to say it doesn't exist? I got the feeling I was dealing with an incredibly ignorant person or a troll. EMP is so well documented its not even funny. Its a documented fact that the effects (the degree is debatable) go out for long distances (line of sight) and it is a fact high altitude bursts won't kill you.

Now...others have suggest we not worry about it because there are bigger threats. I agree with that. However, preparing for this also prepares you for most other threats: Massive civil upheaval caused by an economic collapse (and the subsequent looters trying to take my stuff)...earthquakes...massive CME (like happened in 1859...if it were today...we WOULD be back into the 19th century). Etc.

Be able to grow your own food and have enough stocked away for emergencies. I can provide water, warmth, meat and veggies to my family (for an extended period of time). I can also protect them from any reasonable threat. So whether its economics or an EMP...we would survive.

[LucyT]

Texas has its own power grid and can operate independently of the interconnected grid system.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2087133/

[NELSON111]

Yeah it messed a few things up in Hawaii. So what? To be really effective you be much closer. There is a huge difference between 'fry some car alarms' and 'back to the stone age'

No...you don't have to be closer. Read the report from FAS. Also...there is a BIG difference between the amount of electronics around in 1962 and today. Do you think if the same detonation were to happen today, all that would occur would be some fried car alarms? Besides...it wasn't "car alarms." As far as I know...car alarms didn't exist in 1962. It was burgular alarms at various businesses. There were very few things that relied on electronics back in 1962. That's why it only did a little bit of damage.

If this wasn't a threat...Reagan wouldn't have spent millions of dollars hardening our critical infrastructure AGAINST it.

If you could travel back in time to 1962 with your desktop...and you are in Hawaii...it isn't working after this test. Period. Neither is your calculator...or your car (post 1980ish)...or your TV...your cell phone. None of it. Unless it is hardened

[TalonDJ]

Maybe you should read what you post.

Furthermore, a HEMP attack must use a relatively large warhead to be effective (perhaps on the order of one mega-ton), and new proliferators are unlikely to be able to construct such a device, much less make it small enough to be lofted to high altitude by a ballistic missile or space launcher.

So some terrorists get their hands on a really big bomb. They can either:
A: vaporize Manhattan and kill millions B: Make all those decadent Americans have to buy new cellphones and TVs, there buy giving Taiwan billions of dollars in chip sales.

[txhurl]

You’re describing a Leo.

I postively abhor Leos and they should be the first to be EMPd :)

[TalonDJ]

Computers are surrounded by a grounded metal shield.

Electronics today are more shielded than they were in the 60’s.

Even back then it did not destroy EVERYTHING. There is a reason they concluded that an effective satellite kill required much closer range.

Reagan was preparing to win a global nuclear war. We did a lot of things to prepare back in the cold war and not all of them make sense today.

[DBrow]

“Those tests in the 50’s and 60’s proved it. “

Hey, Nathan, who died in the Soviet high altitude-high yield tests?

Or Starfish, ARGUS, and the others the USA conducted?

Trees ignite, buildings char, or anything?

BTW “Space Weather” means dealing with cosmic rays, solar particles, and the radiation bands around Earth, usually in the context of satellite health and performance predictions. I do space weather too, especially SEE from galactic cosmic rays. It has nothing to do with weather down on Earth. A nuke in space pumps teh radiation belts with tons of particles, so people in the field study the high altitude nukes to learn more about the behaviour of the rad belts.

[XenaLee]

Oh, and I suppose you have never started to compose a response, gotten distracted by the phone or whatever, and then come back and posted that response without first reading the posts in-between the one you were responding to and the one you posted.

Riiight. (as in, sue me)

Back to the stone age might be a bit over the top, I agree. But then, we haven't YET been in that scenario, so who is to say for sure? One thing's for sure. ANY attack of that type would put the Chaos into the Country....good & proper. If a lil ole hurricane can cause panic, mayhem and looting, just think what one of these types of attacks could or would do. Let alone...several coordinated ones.

[Tijeras_Slim]

Exactly, part of my work is rad lot acceptance tests for flight hardware. SEE at a cyclotron, latchup at a FXR, and total dose (Co-60). Interesting stuff up there.

[TalonDJ]

but to say it doesn't exist?

Don't be obtuse. Hand held lasers 'exist'. But if you said they were a current threat I would say it was fiction. The difference is between us spending a ton of money to repair stuff and us all becoming Amish over night. One of those is a fiction. 'Neutron Bombs' exist too but I am not worried about those either.

[DBrow]

“The radius for an effective satellite kill for the various prompt radiations produced by such a nuclear weapon in space was determined to be roughly 80 km. “

And that’s a different kill mechanism, too. The “prompt radiations” are very short bursts of (mostly) x-rays that induce large currents in semiconductors by the photoelectric effect, enough to upset their function or even burn them out. It’s not remotely like EMP.

At high enough dose rates the sat is killed by thermomechanical shock, because the parts heat up so rapidly they undergo an explosive-like shock wave that can break things.

EMP is an atmospheric effect.

[NELSON111]

I know what I posted...and I have not said I thought it would be terrorists...just that that was a possibility. But even the FAS say it is unlikely (but not impossible). Most of the scenarios we work with at DHS regarding terrorists revovle around the 10KT range...so I know that isn't as likely...but it is a possibility (as is almost anything).

The more likley way this would happen would be from a country like North Korea or Iran getting their program together. You don't need that big of a fission bomb to make the BIG leap to fusion. Just a little extra science and a big enough fission yield.

So...I know what I posted. Not really worried about terrorists and EMP. If we were to get EMP'd...it would most likely be by China, Korea or Iran. They all have (or are very close) the technology to do it. You need the device and the launcher.

Of course...any country that uses it better be ready to send a few more nukes (ground impact) to our critical sites (Dc...etc) or they will eventually get nuked by our subs. Since sub drivers don't have the capacity to launch on their own...who ever did thie better completely know out CC.

[TalonDJ]

ANY attack of that type would put the Chaos into the Country....good & proper. If a lil ole hurricane can cause panic, mayhem and looting, just think what one of these types of attacks could or would do. Let alone...several coordinated ones.

True, certainly true. Whenever I see a pre-911 movie that has a bunch of buildings getting knocked over (like Godzilla) I get chills. Back then massive damage was no biggy as long as we 'won' at the end of the movie. Post-911 we know that even a few major buildings taking catastrophic damage will have a massive impact.

But is the EMP risk is half what the wildeyed types want us to think then the cost to protect from it is in the trillions, not a few hundred million. And even then things like cell phones would all be toast.

[DBrow]

“they can either:
A: vaporize Manhattan and kill millions B: Make all those decadent Americans have to buy new cellphones “

Exactly. A terrorist would more likely hide a nuke in a truck than get the kind of missile and guidance system needed to pull off an EMP attack.

A nation-state might include an EMP attack as part of a bigger nuke attack. Even then, the average ICBM does not go high enough (the range required for an EMP shot would be far in excess of the range needed to put one 20,000 feet over a target.

But for a country like North Korea to suddenly use a missile capable of getting 20 miles over Dayton and reliably pop a “big one” is not likely at all.

It’s interesting that the “EMP” articles keep appearing regularly. Like someone wants us to keep worrying about it.

[NELSON111]

Computers are surrounded by a grounded metal shield...

Huh? That has nothing to do with the shielding.

Of course it didn't destroy everything. Wasn't a lot of electronic microchips around in 1962...

And we aren't talking about sat kills. That is a different process than EMP. Same trigger...but different process. One is caused by compton electrons...the other is caused by the creation of its own radiation belt.

[DBrow]

lol look up the song “Black Powder and Alcohol” by Leslie Fish.