Posted on 09/08/2009 11:02:37 AM PDT by JoeProBono
HARDINSBURG, Ky. (AP) -- A Kentucky woman says her 16-year-old son was baptized without her consent when he and fellow football players were taken to a Baptist revival by their coach.
(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...
As I said previously, I was raised Catholic. But, my husband was raised Presbyterian. Both of us were raised in a particular denomination. Yet, we grew up to become disenchanted with our churches and not to be churchgoers at all. So, there’s no fail-safe situation.
Like these parents, we decided to let our children reach their own decision, too. That doesn’t mean we as parents have no influence in that decision. We were concerned at one point; we didn’t want to raise our children in a vacuum. Everyone was warning us that they needed to be raised going to church. They made some valid points.
So, I actively involved our children in church groups as a way to check into churches, and what I found was an absence of Christian values there. The last time, I ended up in a big argument with a church group because they supported same-sex marriage.
So, we’re through with churches. Our children are being raised to believe in a higher power and Christian values. Given our last experience, I don’t think our eldest son will ever join a church, but no one can guarantee what any child will decide when he grows up.
If this boy were our son, our reaction would depend on his reaction. If he had just gone along with the experience and not taken it seriously, we might be laughing with him about it. But, if he were taking it seriously, we would be concerned, too.
Aye, but we’ll let anyone throw roses at Mary’s feet. ;-)
We did a full-court press Church Search after the Episcopalians irrevocably lost their collective mind at GC 2003, and we looked at a lot of parishes in various denominations. Settled on a fine orthodox Catholic parish which has the usual complement of sinners, including us.
I agree with your friends that it is extremely dangerous to raise children in No Religion. They lack the tools to make an informed decision when they do reach age 18. You have to pick one and go with it. When the Piskies blew up I had two preteens - no way we were going to leave them unchurched in their formative years, even if we wound up at the Independent Bible Church of God of Prophecy, or whatever.
(Re: same sex marriage - You should have known better than to have anything to do with the Episcopalians. It's been all over the papers for years . . . . !)
They were certainly comfortable teaching THEIR religion.
However, they made it clear that the government should not be in the position of dictating religion to anyone else.
Publik schools are GOVERNMENT schools.
They have no business teaching, advocating and especially not recruiting and indoctrinating ANY religion, even if it was the religion of Thomas Jefferson.
I’m glad you’re OK with how other people indoctrinate other peoples’ children. That’s mighty magnanimous of you.
STICK TO YOUR OWN CHILDREN and let others decide what’s best for their own children.
It isn’t sacreligious (except for a person who knowingly and disobediently performs it). Just a nullity.
Ok, here’s my thoughts.
1. Did the child request baptism? If he did, than he ought to be baptised. End of Story. I don’t care if the parents are upset, mine were upset as well when I became a Christian. We have inalienable rights to liberty and the pursuit of happiness, that do not simply go out the door because we are children of parents. How old do they have to be to have the right to worship God? Christ is very clear. “Do not suffer the little children unto me.”
2. I don’t see a problem with a coach of a football team, or a principal baptising a child. Anyone can baptise in the name of the father, son and holy spirit.
3. The only problem I do have is if it was not the wish of the child to be baptised. Then it is wrong, and only because it violates his conscience. If the kid did want to be baptised, whether it was to be with his friends or to appeal to his coach, that is in God’s hands, not ours. He reads hearts and we do not, so how can we presume what is in the heart of the child.
I know I would be upset if my children were raised Catholic and left the church. I would feel I had failed to teach them and to set a proper example. But, in the end it is his decision and I would accept it.
And yet, sex with the coach or the superintendent is still forbidden. They are in positions of power and it is unethical.
“But now the football coach of the local school has usurped their right to raise their kid as they saw fit.”
Again, do not suffer the little children. Remember what Apostle Paul says about parents, do not exasperate your children.” Your first duty as a parent should be to bring your child to the Lord. I can see the beauty in wanting to be there, but would I rather my son wait until 18, or that he came to the Lord now? I think I know my answer. :)
That’s a nice set of blinders you have on. I suppose there is no problem with the kindergarten teacher baptizing all the kids on the first day, either? Just pray to God she’s the same sect as you.
If the coach wants to bring children to Jesus, then he should become a preacher. As a football coach he needs to know his limits.
I suppose you could use peer pressure to ‘get dunked’, but true baptism is between you and God and that is a choice. If this young man regrets his action, he wasn’t truly baptized.
But, they weren’t Episcopalians. The church was Methodist, and the group they were running was interdenominational. The leader was a Methodist, but other officers were Catholic, Baptist, etc. A few privately agreed with me, but decided to stay with this church group and agreed to their terms. (That’s just as bad, imho.) And - here’s the kicker - those officers are involved in leadership positions at their own churches, too.
There’s much more to the story, but I won’t go into more detail on this thread. I considered joining a church and fighting them on the issues. I looked into one of them. But, then I thought about all the time, effort, and money I’d wasted with the one church group for two years, only to find out their true nature. So, I decided not to waste our time and money again.
It can be if it is done in a way that seems to deny the efficacy of the sacrament. In other words, if there are doubts when there should not be....that is why conditional baptisms should only be done when there is serious and valid doubt as to the validity of the original baptism.
I bring this up because there are a number of sects which insist upon a certain formality of baptism (e.g., only “full immersion” or over the “age of reason,” or only under the auspices of representatives of their particular sect) which is unnecessary, and results in a sacrilegious act.
However, upon reading further, it sounds like that’s not the case in this situation. There apparently was no orginal baptism here (a bad idea, by the way).
I hope that the young man's baptism included a sincere profession of faith and he lives his life as a true Christian.
However, I totally agree with your perspective. As long as the young man is still part of his parent's household, the wishes of his parents should be respected. If he is truly a believer, nothing his parents do can will interfere with that. He could be baptized later.
That would piss me off too actually. I’d let the coach know that I would not allow this to happen again, and threaten legal action if it did. And again, I am not a troll!
She's already consulted an attorney...wonder how much she is going to sue for? You know...that's what this is about. Well, that and her 15 minutes of fame...
You are not dealing with the friggin Taliban here. You are dealing with a smilin happy highschool football coach who opened his personal life up to his players.
All this fear and loathing for a generous act by a human being from so called christian folks with what is supposed to be good ethical relationships and understanding of their fellow man has not at all surprised me.
Sometimes I think perhaps it would be wise for God, assuming there is one, to wipe the slate clean one more time and start over.
I am much more than "done".
I think that more than half the respondents on this thread and generally on this forum who as self professed Christians should have their heads examined. There is no violation of anything in this story. It's a typical mass media Christian bashing story from the AP where they take advantage of the idiot emotional knee jerk reactions that some ignorant people have and having successfully pulled their chains, they set them against each other like rabid dogs.
Yeah your done, but they have moved on to another bunch of blind emotional idiots to manipulate while you finish feasting on your own.
The kid made the choice. No, I wouldn’t want my kid becoming Muslim but kids do all sorts of things parents don’t like. That’s why it’s our job to, hopefully, train them up in the way they should go so they will stay on the path.
Gotta put some responsibility back on Mommy and accept that a 16 year old kid has free-will and chooses to exercise it. If this were a 10 year old, I’d have a different view.
Oh, and, yes, I agree with you regarding the coercion. If there was coercion then it was meaningless anyway. Sortof like, “Bow to Mecca, or I’ll chop your head off.” Not very convincing when the guy finally bows.
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