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To: calex59
> You say the acid, and beer also, is not the cause of "bad reactions" but the surroundings are, when in reality if they had not taken the acid or drank the beer(or other drugs)they wouldn't have to worry about their reactions to it, would they? To say the drugs are not the root cause of their "bad trips" and sometimes physical damage caused by both the acid and the beer is just slightly hypocritical.

I'll try to clear up the confusion.

Acid is an incredibly powerful psychoactive drug. In my opinion it surpasses all other drugs in the regard that it is not for everyone, indeed most people probably should avoid it, because it will likely change their point of view about their lives, and most people can't handle questions like that.

That said, a huge number of people have taken it, with relatively few adverse reactions, percentage-wise. So here's an attempt to reconcile our positions, which actually are not far apart.

  1. The vast majority of people who drink beer, or drop acid, do not get into bar fights or suffer bad trips every time they do so. Unlike, say, drinking bleach, which will sicken or kill everyone who does so, every time.

  2. A person is responsible for their own voluntary actions, including drinking beer, dropping acid, standing in a strobe light, etc. It's a personal responsibility to avoid doing actions that cause trouble. And as you pointed out above, if the person didn't take the drug, they wouldn't have had the adverse reaction to it.

  3. Most people can drink beer without getting into a fight, most people can watch a strobe light without a seizure, most people can drop acid without a bad trip.

  4. There will always be some people who react badly to any given drug, or food, or drink, or light. In the case of acid, that number of people is very small, percentage-wise.

  5. The "cause" of an adverse reaction is that -- as you correctly pointed out above -- THE PERSON TOOK THE DRUG. The drug itself, which most people can take without that ill effect, did not cause the reaction while it was just sitting on the table.

Consider: Most people can drink red wine without a problem. But red wine gives me bad headaches. I learned this by noticing my reaction pattern whenever I drank red wine. So I stopped drinking red wine.

Now, if I drink red wine, and get a headache, what is the "cause" of my headache? MY ACTION OF DRINKING THE WINE. The wine, sitting in the bottle, didn't give me a headache. And it didn't suddenly jump out of the bottle and force itself down my throat. If I drink the wine, it's my own damn fault when I get a headache.

You can, if you wish, believe that "it's the drug's fault", but to me, that's shifting responsibility for a person's actions away from the person and onto an inanimate object.

Other than that distinction, it appears to me that we agree.

91 posted on 08/20/2009 8:20:28 AM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: dayglored; calex59

Oops, in my comment above (#91) I missed an edit — point #1 and point #3 are essentially the same, I meant to remove point #3 before posting. Sorry....


97 posted on 08/20/2009 8:44:16 AM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: dayglored

You pointed out why drugs suck. People take them and then their actions are no longer their own. The get addicted, can’t stop, hurt themselves/others, ruin their lives.. It brings society as a whole down. That’s why I absolutely DESPISE people that use/used illegal drugs. It’s such poor judgement and selfish behavior that makes life worse for everyone except them for the times they are high. Screw it, and anyone using it.


105 posted on 08/20/2009 12:45:30 PM PDT by Tolsti2
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