Posted on 07/21/2009 3:42:26 PM PDT by real_patriotic_american
See, here’s an example, you misstate the issue as if you know something you don’t know: “... or coerce Pennysaver-type newspapers how they might help the cause of the Obama presidency by agreeing to promote counterfeit documentation in their birth announcements, but apparently you are.” If someone conterfeits the microfiche, how is that the penny-saver paper helping the Obama machine? Are you trying to blame an alter microfiche on the paper? No, and that is not what I would conclude, either. And, BTW, looking carefully at the announcements, aside from an erroneous address being given, the text does not align as if it were original. There may have been a legitimate announcement for another child or twins that had the names removed and Obama names inserted.
Frank Marshall Davis’ baby was sent to the mainland because FBI agents in Hawaii were investigating Frank Marshall Davis. After Barack Sr left Hawaii for Harvard, Anne and baby Barry quietly returned from the Pacific Northwest. Barry may or may not have briefly attended kindergarten in Hawaii, but they soon left for Indonesia.
Barry Soetoro went to lower school in Indonesia. After Hoover died and the FBI closed the Frank M Davis file, young Barry returned to Hawaii full-time for middle- and high-school and to meet “Pop” Frank.
You are misinformed. That is simply not true.
You can't understand why a young American woman who unexpectedly gave birth in a third world country would want to hurry back to America to her family and doctor, even though it entailed a difficult trip?
No, what I can't understand is why a young American woman, in her THIRD TRIMESTER OF PREGNANCY, in 1961, would fly half way around the world to a third world country.
The Supreme Court has not ruled on the question of what is required to be a natural born citizen for purposes of the Constitution.
That's because it is obvious. There are only two types of citizens mentioned in the Constitution: natural born and naturalized. If you're not naturalized, then logically you can only be natural born. Period. This is not an open question, the rantings of a guy who sees black helicopters following him everywhere he goes notwithstanding
Black helicopters? Huh?
It is remarkable how the suggestion that the president should disclose his long form birth certificate is making you become unhinged. I guess it would really send you around the bend if I noted that I think he should also release his college and law school transcripts and financial aid records!
Again, if, in the unlikely event Ann did travel somewhere other than Hawaii prior to giving birth, we don’t KNOW how far along in the pregnancy she might have been if she had so traveled.
Shouting with all caps that she must have been in the third trimester does not make it so.
Furthermore, one should step back a moment when considering these various scenarios.
For purposes of modeling behavior of large groups of people, making an assumption, such as that each person is a rational actor who makes decisions in an informed manner reasonably designed to maximize his or her personal benefit, may be appropriate and useful, for example in understanding the effect of an event or circumstance on a large system such as a national economy.
But when considering the possible behavior of an individual person, such as Ann Dunham Obama, it is foolish to make the same type of assumption.
Individuals often do dumb things that one would not expect a rational actor in the abstract to do. Implausible things happen all the time in the lives of individual people. Ann might well have been foolish enough to travel when pregnant, even quite far along. Who knows? She might have gotten on a plane with a two-week old infant and moved somewhere alone with little or no money far away from the support of her parents and doctor.
Supposing that a rational, informed person would or would not have taken some action, and then purporting to conclude definitively that therefore Ann Dunham Obama did or did not take that same action, is nonsense.
The best one can say is that something may be unlikely, or somewhat likely, or very likely, and so forth, depending on the extent and quality of the circumstantial evidence we have on which to make a judgment.
Also, it seems clear you understand little about constitutional jurisprudence, yet you pretend to certainty in this area as well.
Yes, it is possible that a modern Supreme Court might adopt the same or similar conditions and categories that Congress has enacted into current U.S. law (which, by the way, have changed from time to time) defining when a person born somewhere subject to US jurisdiction is a citizen at birth, for purposes of whether a citizen is “natural born” within the meaning of the presidential eligibility clause of the Constitution. But as a legal matter, such an outcome is not compelled by precedent or by the canons of constitutional interpretation. Indeed, such a result would likely be contrary to an originalist approach to the interpretation of the presidential eligibility clause.
Assuming that he ever became an Indonesian citizen, and Indonesian law seems to make that impossible, still under U.S. law you can only give up your citizenship if you are an adult. Nobody can do it for you.
He had to to attend the muslim school. You must be an Indonesian citizen to go to school there. He was adopted by his Indonesian muslim stepfather Mr. Sotero. Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship. He went back to Hawaii to live with his communist grandparents. As an Indonesian. What after that I would like to know. He is obviously perpetrating the biggest fraud in American history.
And this is based on what?
He was adopted by his Indonesian muslim stepfather Mr. Sotero. Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship.
Even if the adoption stories are true, if Obama was born in Hawaii then his U.S. citizenship is a birthright that only he can give up. His parents cannot give it up on his behalf. He cannot be stripped of it by any act of a foreign government. Only Obama could give up his citizenship, and only when he was legally able to do so - when he was an adult.
Another problem is that based on Indonesian law in place at the time, only children under the age of 5 automatically gained citizenship upon adoption. Older than that they had to be naturalized when they reached adulthood. Obama was 5 or 6 when he moved to Indonesia.
As an Indonesian.
Highly doubtful if not impossible.
He was 4. Indonesian law. You say “if” born in Hawaii. I say where is his birth certificate? It costs 12 dollars to get a copy. Why will he not release it and end the argument? A certification of live birth is not a birth certificate. The birth certificate has the hospital Dr. name time. Parents. Location...City State...COUNTRY! I am trying to find out what was required for a COLB such as the one he produced but no luck yet. I will have to do more research. Do you know? Also citizenship is not the requirement. One must be a natural born citizen.
He was 6. Born in August 1961, moved to Indonesia in late 1967. According to Indonesian law he wasn't a citizen.
Interesting. I wonder how his Father was able to adopt him and send him to school? Maybe he had some sort of visa? Seems fishy he will not release a simple thing like Passport, birth cert. and such to clear it up and put it to rest. I would just send the 12 bucks in and get a copy. It would make the birters look foolish. His grandmother in Kenya says she was there when he was born in Kenya. I will not consider him legit until he provides the documents. Something is very very wrong here.
It’s been suggested Soetoro was actually Malaysian, and he went to Indonesia because the military there desperately needed geologists. The whole “family” might have been naturalized at the same time when the Malaysian Soetoro joined the Indonesia military.
Is that solely speculation or do you have something to support it? Because here's the law in place at the time - Link - and there's nothing in it about citizenship for soldiers.
It's been said time and again that only Indonesian citizens could go to school there, but I've never seen the actual law that states it. The Indonesian Constitution makes education a right without regards to citizenship. But regardless, it's entirely possible that Soetoro could have said Obama was his son and was a citizen and not have to show a thing to support it. As I recall, when we registered my daughter for kindergarden all we needed to prove was residence in the district.
Seems fishy he will not release a simple thing like Passport, birth cert. and such to clear it up and put it to rest. I would just send the 12 bucks in and get a copy. It would make the birters look foolish.
On the other hand, with all the running around demanding birth certificates what other aspects of his background aren't getting the attention they deserve? It may be to his advantage to have everyone focusing in one direction and ignoring others. After all, he isn't having any problems winning in the courts and it isn't costing him a dime.
His grandmother in Kenya says she was there when he was born in Kenya.
Well, no she didn't.
There is all kine excuses for this and excuses for that..theories etc. Me I wanna see the paperwork. Put the cards on the table. Until then ... not legit..I do not buy it.
If Soetoro had another nationality, his work as a geologist for the Indonesian Army would enable him for naturalization under Article 6 of the law you linked. His wife & (alleged(ly adopted)) child would then have an opening to claim Indonesian citizenship as well.
(1)The citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia because of naturalization is acquired with the validity of the decree of the Minister of Justice who grants this naturalization.
{SNIP}
(5)The decree of the Minister of Justice which grants naturalization is valid as of the date that the petitioner takes an oath or swear allegiance before the Pengadilan Negeri or Representation of the Republic of Indonesia at the residence of the petitioner and is valid retroactively the date of said decree of the Minister of Justice.
The oath or allegiance swearing is as follows:
“I swear (promise): “that I release entirely all loyalty “to foreign authority; “that I recognize and accept the highest authority “of and shall be loyal to “the Republic of Indonesia; “that I shall uphold the Constitution and other laws of “the Republic of Indonesia and “shall defend them faithfully; “that I bear this duty out of my own free will “and shall not diminish whatsoever”.
(6)After the petitioner has taken an oath or sworn allegiance as mentioned above, the Minister of Justice publishes such naturalization by inserting his decree in the State’s Paper.
(7)If the oath is not taken or allegiance not sworn within three months after the date of the decree of the Minister of Justice, said decree will automatically become null and void.
Article 6.
Naturalization may also be granted for the interest of the State or because of services rendered to the State, by the Government with the approval of Parliament. In this case from the provisions of article 5 only those in para 1, para 5, para 6 and para 7 are applicable.
Occidental College was always obscure, and only recently revived by the association with Obama.
If you look into it, you’ll find that some departments at least, not to mention the whole “philosophy” of the school
itself suggest it might as well have been called Acorn University.
1.Why do you think he continues to fight the court cases filed against him. Even some by military officers. Wouldn’t you think since he works for us that as a common courtesy to the officers and the citizens, that he would put this to rest. Is he hiding *something* or is he simply an arrogant SOB or both?
2. Don’t you think maybe the birth certificate would have been a non issue had he not refused to release all of his other records?
3. Why did he refuses to release His medical records, yet it’s ok for him to want all of ours fed into his little data base in DC?
4. Why do you think there isn’t a single photo released of he and his mother, father, grandparents together? Not one. He was her first born child.
5. Why are there photos of him in Hawaii as a toddler but zero when he was 1-3 years old?
6. Explain to me your theory on why his mother was in Seattle, without her husband, with brand new little pink Barry? Why did she enroll in school in Seattle when he was an infant and her husband, the father of her newborn was in Hawaii?
7. Did she leave Hawaii to fly to Seattle a few days after he was born? If so, why? Her friend there said she didn’t even know how to change a diaper yet. Don’t say her friend was not on Ann’s side because she was and when it hit the press, she shut up and refused any further interviews and has been silent ever since.
8. Why do you think there isn’t a single, NOT ONE, ex girlfriend? Not one girl until Michelle. No pictures, no statement, nothing. Only pictures of him with men and some of them pretty darn cozy looking. No prom pictures, no candid photos, not a single one, but plenty with guys.
9. Do you think he is hiding things that could remove him from office, make him a liar or embarrass him? Some of these, none of these or all of these?
10. In his book, Dreams, he said that he found his birth certificate and vaccination records. He found it special enough to mention it in his book, unless it was a lie and if it was a lie, why? What happened to those? Why didn’t he post a copy of that on the Internet? Why did he have to get a new COLB from Hawaii?
11. If you found out that he was born in Canada or Kenya, would you still think he is eligible?
12. If we found out he was born in Canada or Kenya, then he said he was lied to by his family and he didn’t even know it until now, would you still think he was eligible?
13. Do you believe Larry Sinclair? Do you not think he seems much more touchy feely with males than he does with females?
14. Did you think he throws a baseball like a girl? (this one is here just for sh*ts and giggles)
1.Why do you think he continues to fight the court cases filed against him. Even some by military officers. Wouldn’t you think since he works for us that as a common courtesy to the officers and the citizens, that he would put this to rest. Is he hiding *something* or is he simply an arrogant SOB or both?
2. Don’t you think maybe the birth certificate would have been a non issue had he not refused to release all of his other records?
3. Why does he refuse to release His medical records, yet it’s ok for him to want all of ours fed into his little data base in DC?
4. Why do you think there isn’t a single photo released of he and his mother, father, grandparents together? Not one. He was her first born child.
5. Why are there photos of him in Hawaii as a toddler but zero when he was 1-3 years old?
6. Explain to me your theory on why his mother was in Seattle, without her husband, with brand new little pink Barry? Why did she enroll in school in Seattle when he was an infant and her husband, the father of her newborn was in Hawaii?
7. Did she leave Hawaii to fly to Seattle a few days after he was born? If so, why? Her friend there said she didn’t even know how to change a diaper yet. Don’t say her friend was not on Ann’s side because she was and when it hit the press, she shut up and refused any further interviews and has been silent ever since.
8. Why do you think there isn’t a single, NOT ONE, ex girlfriend? Not one girl until Michelle. No pictures, no statement, nothing. Only pictures of him with men and some of them pretty darn cozy looking. No prom pictures, no candid photos, not a single one, but plenty with guys.
9. Do you think he is hiding things that could remove him from office, make him a liar or embarrass him? Some of these, none of these or all of these?
10. In his book, Dreams, he said that he found his birth certificate and vaccination records. He found it special enough to mention it in his book, unless it was a lie and if it was a lie, why? What happened to those? Why didn’t he post a copy of that on the internet? Why did he have to get a new COLB from Hawaii?
11. If you found out that he was born in Canada or Kenya, would you still think he is eligible?
12. If we found out he was born in Canada or Kenya, then he said he was lied to by his family and he didn’t even know it until now, would you still think he was eligible?
13. Do you believe Larry Sinclair? Do you not think he seems much more touchy feely with males than he does with females?
14. Did you think he throws a baseball like a girl? (this one is here just for sh*ts and giggles)
That was worth repeating.
(I think he was born a female or hermaphrodite, that’s the embarrassing personal detail on his real birth certificate)...
You and I seem to be the ones, who find no girl friends to be odd.
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